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My opinion on Red-Rays efforts


Timbono

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Hi everybody :)

I just downloaded SIV and Corsair Link 4 and compared both of them.

I can confirm that SIV is the more reliable and functional software from my own experience. Corsair Link takes more time to start, doesn't show all my cores (20), takes more CPU power, shows two temperatures for some drives and doesn't show all my drives and so on. All these issues don't exist with SIV.

 

Effectively Red-Ray is the only one providing a working software for Corsair Link products. Therefore I am baffled of how he is treated.

 

Why doesn't Corsair work together with this amazing developer to solve the issues their own software has?

 

Why doesn't Corsair provide him hardware for free to adjust his software to their hardware?

 

Why is there no interaction between Corsair Link developers and him?

 

Honestly, I think he should be managing the "Corsair Link" part of the forum, because his threads are detailed and easy to understand and he is most invested in the Link software.

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First, last, and ONLY warning. I've already had to remove personal attacks in this thread. Keep it civil, or bans are next.

 

Thank you for doing this, I look forward to a constructive reply to my last PM and being able to update http://forum.corsair.com/forums/showthread.php?p=779631.

 

I and I suspect many other forum members should like to see Corsair answer these questions.

 

I realise you can't answer the questions Timbono has asked, but feel someone from Corsair should on or before Friday 26-May-2017 UTC.

 

Please will you try and make this happen and also that I get a constructive reply to my Ticket Number #6560108 by the same deadline so I don't need to start posting screen shots of the entire saga?

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His efforts are great, and so is his commitment, but honestly red-ray is tooting his own horn a little too often.

 

Really, red-ray. I appreciate your work and knowledge, but you bring up what you do right and Corsair does wrong a little too often. Sometimes even when completely unnecessary.

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This thread went from 0 -100 in no time lol.

 

I honestly stopped buying Corsair products. Its too much crap and its been years of nothing being fixed while they push out new products.

 

Thanks to red-ray and other active users on the forums that helped new users troubleshoot their stuff. Its maddening to buy new equipment, it doesn't work, they go through the official support ticket system and get a default "RMA" reply but when they come to the forums there are the active users giving them troubleshooting tips to resolve the issue. These problems go silent and Corsair keeps rolling like nothing is wrong.

 

Every year we see big Gorge at Computex or the Computer shows showing off new hardware or the amazing things that Corsair products can do, then the products make it to the review sites who cant say anything bad about the product because they know they cannot post the review unless its approved by either Corsiar or an editor who wants to keep relations good with corsair.

 

Now here we are today......What has changed besides the Corsair logo? nothing.

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I think it would be in Corsairs best interest to support Red-Ray. Since their software has lots of issues that Red's doesn't, they should enjoy his support and connect with him.

 

Imagine Corsair Links beginner friendlyness combined with SIVs functionality and reliability. That would be awesome.

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I think it would be in Corsairs best interest to support Red-Ray. Since their software has lots of issues that Red's doesn't, they should enjoy his support and connect with him.

 

Imagine Corsair Links beginner friendlyness combined with SIVs functionality and reliability. That would be awesome.

 

maybe corsair should drop all the pretty bells and whistles in their software which would make having a workable software so much easier and then go from there.

they have a habit of taking broken software and adding to it.

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My position is simple. Anyone who spends time on this thread knows that Corsair software and firmware has problems and has for a long time. Many people end up on this forum because of this fact. Red Ray has identified problems and bugs, often offered insight into how to fix them, added the ability to control Corsair Link enabled products to his SIV utility (which is offered for free), and spent way more time helping other people get their hardware working than Corsair does.

 

I had given up on Corsair Link and was sorry I bought hardware from them because of it. I ended up totally deleting Link and not even bothering to try any updated versions. Every time they release an update, it’s as bad or worse than before. That said, I bought a Commander Mini because using SIV, I could finally do what I wanted. I would never have purchased it if not for SIV. Now I may buy a new Commander Pro, but there is NO WAY I will purchase it until Ray has gotten his hands on one (and hopefully the NDA info that he needs), and tested it thoroughly.

 

I have read many posts from others in the same situation – tried Link, had problems, tried to fix them, gave up, found out about SIV, downloaded it, stumbled through it before manning up and reading the Guide, got it working (sort of), needed help, got help from Ray, and am now enjoying my Corsair hardware running with SIV. And now I am excited as the prospect of adding this new Command Pro, which is a pretty clever little box, under SIV control. Then an upgrade to HD-140 and HD-120 RGB fans (or Mag-Levs with RGB LEDs if they ever make them). A complete Corsair based upgrade, but not unless Ray figures out the Commander Pro and adds support in SIV for it.

 

In the end, I think he will but it sure would be nice if Corsair would help him out and provide a sample or 2 to him, and the technical information he needs to do the job more easily. There are now reviews all over the Internet from the usual sources. They all got sent a Commander Pro, a Lighting Node Pro, and some HD – RGB Series fans. Why can’t Corsair send Ray a review sample? They are going to get better feedback than any of the reviews I just read, which were nice but nowhere near the depth of what Ray would do. Everybody wins, so why not do it. I’m not buying one, or any new fans, until this happens.

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In the end, I think he will but it sure would be nice if Corsair would help him out and provide a sample or 2 to him, and the technical information he needs to do the job more easily. There are now reviews all over the Internet from the usual sources. They all got sent a Commander Pro, a Lighting Node Pro, and some HD – RGB Series fans. Why can’t Corsair send Ray a review sample? They are going to get better feedback than any of the reviews I just read, which were nice but nowhere near the depth of what Ray would do. Everybody wins, so why not do it. I’m not buying one, or any new fans, until this happens.

 

Exactly.

It doesn't make sense to not provide the one developer that developed working software for some of your own products with a test sample. Corsair is damaging itself. Which is sad, because I like the commander mini. I like that it is narrow and has lots of connections. I like its PWM support.

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This thread went from 0 -100 in no time lol.

 

I honestly stopped buying Corsair products. Its too much crap and its been years of nothing being fixed while they push out new products.

 

Thanks to red-ray and other active users on the forums that helped new users troubleshoot their stuff. Its maddening to buy new equipment, it doesn't work, they go through the official support ticket system and get a default "RMA" reply but when they come to the forums there are the active users giving them troubleshooting tips to resolve the issue. These problems go silent and Corsair keeps rolling like nothing is wrong.

 

Every year we see big Gorge at Computex or the Computer shows showing off new hardware or the amazing things that Corsair products can do, then the products make it to the review sites who cant say anything bad about the product because they know they cannot post the review unless its approved by either Corsair or an editor who wants to keep relations good with corsair.

 

Now here we are today......What has changed besides the Corsair logo? nothing.

 

This is factually inaccurate and missing information. I'm happy to explain how reviews work, though; I was press prior to working at Corsair (look up "Dustin Sklavos AnandTech") and was actually brought on because my reviews were extremely critical.

 

You're absolutely right to be concerned about the uneasy peace between hardware vendors and reviewers. And there are companies that will cut off review hardware to someone that gives them a bad review. And there are reviewers who will basically sell good reviews.

 

Corsair won't cut off an outlet for a bad review, and I know this to be true because I've done it. At absolute worst, ad dollars influence how fast a review will get done, but have no impact on its quality.

 

As for the generations of hardware and software, I will readily admit there are issues. But if you've been paying attention, newer generations typically resolve the problems that might have plagued prior ones.

 

Take, for example, Commander & Cooling Node -> Commander Mini -> Commander Pro. For the Commander, Cooling Node, and Commander Mini, we've been more or less at the mercy of a third party for firmware updates because we were using their IP. With Commander Pro, that's no longer the case; Commander Pro's hardware and firmware are now developed internally precisely to avoid the problems we'd had with third party hardware and firmware.

 

It may seem externally that we're not paying attention, but we're actually paying extremely close attention.

 

You're an end user, and the products you bought didn't live up to your expectations. And that's totally fine. Our problems shouldn't be your problems, and if I were still on the press side of this I would be pushing back on Corsair if I were having your experiences.

 

The best I can tell you is that the problems that we can fix, we try, and the problems we can't, we make a note of and go about trying to solve in the next generation of products.

 

Exactly.

It doesn't make sense to not provide the one developer that developed working software for some of your own products with a test sample. Corsair is damaging itself. Which is sad, because I like the commander mini. I like that it is narrow and has lots of connections. I like its PWM support.

 

This is a more complex situation than you realize. I've tried at length to work with Ray in the past when I was in Technical Marketing and managing these forums, and I've tried to support him, but there are limits - often legal ones - to what we can share with him and what we can do.

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Exactly.

It doesn't make sense to not provide the one developer that developed working software for some of your own products with a test sample. Corsair is damaging itself. Which is sad, because I like the commander mini. I like that it is narrow and has lots of connections. I like its PWM support.

 

Agreed. I like the Commander Mini too though I will likely retire it and replace it with a Commander Pro, but ONLY IF it get's Ray's seal of approval and he adds support for in in SIV. I am not interested in even trying Corsair Link, nor will I be until I can come to this forum and start reading success stories more than reading post after post about problem after problem. I have not had the Mini that long and if I replace it I will chalk it up to progress and bad timing. I am happy to pay for something that WORKS.

 

I would love to be a fly on the wall in the Corsair meetings about this. Then again, it may be wishful thinking that they even have meetings about this. I don't have any idea how there corporate structure works but there seems to be some "Not my department - Don't know, never used it" type responses that do not really do much to increase my feeling that they take the issues in these posts seriously. Time will tell if they can be reactive and flexible enough to actually realize that getting Ray some samples would be good for business - assuming the thing is not totally plagued with bugs. In that case, they may want to stick with the Fan Boy reviews that are already out.

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Agreed. I like the Commander Mini too though I will likely retire it and replace it with a Commander Pro, but ONLY IF it get's Ray's seal of approval and he adds support for in in SIV. I am not interested in even trying Corsair Link, nor will I be until I can come to this forum and start reading success stories more than reading post after post about problem after problem. I have not had the Mini that long and if I replace it I will chalk it up to progress and bad timing. I am happy to pay for something that WORKS.

 

I would love to be a fly on the wall in the Corsair meetings about this. Then again, it may be wishful thinking that they even have meetings about this. I don't have any idea how there corporate structure works but there seems to be some "Not my department - Don't know, never used it" type responses that do not really do much to increase my feeling that they take the issues in these posts seriously. Time will tell if they can be reactive and flexible enough to actually realize that getting Ray some samples would be good for business - assuming the thing is not totally plagued with bugs. In that case, they may want to stick with the Fan Boy reviews that are already out.

 

I'm sorry if you're unhappy with our products and software. It may not seem like it, but there is substantial effort put into these products and software; I spend a minimum of two hours in meetings once a week just going over and prioritizing bugs, and was responsible for architecting a large Corsair Link "bible" to guide future development and ensure a more cohesive and overall better user experience.

 

But that being said, we can only do so much. If you don't feel like our stuff meets your needs and you're not satisfied - which is totally within your rights - you may be better served by a competitor's product. We'd rather have happy friends than angry customers.

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Honestly, at the moment, the bigger problem is the software, not the hardware. Commander Pro's firmware may be all in your hands, but Corsair Link still is being made by a third party, if I'm not mistaken. Corsair's hardware is never the problem. The software always is.
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Honestly, at the moment, the bigger problem is the software, not the hardware. Commander Pro's firmware may be all in your hands, but Corsair Link still is being made by a third party, if I'm not mistaken. Corsair's hardware is never the problem. The software always is.

 

The software used to be third party; with Link 3 it moved in house and then was redesigned from the ground up in Link 4.

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This is factually inaccurate and missing information. I'm happy to explain how reviews work, though; I was press prior to working at Corsair (look up "Dustin Sklavos AnandTech") and was actually brought on because my reviews were extremely critical.

 

You're absolutely right to be concerned about the uneasy peace between hardware vendors and reviewers. And there are companies that will cut off review hardware to someone that gives them a bad review. And there are reviewers who will basically sell good reviews.

 

Corsair won't cut off an outlet for a bad review, and I know this to be true because I've done it. At absolute worst, ad dollars influence how fast a review will get done, but have no impact on its quality.

 

As for the generations of hardware and software, I will readily admit there are issues. But if you've been paying attention, newer generations typically resolve the problems that might have plagued prior ones.

 

Take, for example, Commander & Cooling Node -> Commander Mini -> Commander Pro. For the Commander, Cooling Node, and Commander Mini, we've been more or less at the mercy of a third party for firmware updates because we were using their IP. With Commander Pro, that's no longer the case; Commander Pro's hardware and firmware are now developed internally precisely to avoid the problems we'd had with third party hardware and firmware.

 

It may seem externally that we're not paying attention, but we're actually paying extremely close attention.

 

You're an end user, and the products you bought didn't live up to your expectations. And that's totally fine. Our problems shouldn't be your problems, and if I were still on the press side of this I would be pushing back on Corsair if I were having your experiences.

 

The best I can tell you is that the problems that we can fix, we try, and the problems we can't, we make a note of and go about trying to solve in the next generation of products.

 

 

 

This is a more complex situation than you realize. I've tried at length to work with Ray in the past when I was in Technical Marketing and managing these forums, and I've tried to support him, but there are limits - often legal ones - to what we can share with him and what we can do.

 

First I want to say THANK YOU for posting this detailed and informative response. It's good to see Corsair people responding to these posts, and with actual info - not just "Don't know - passed it on". Those posts never seem to be followed with later info. They just die out.

 

It seems obvious that Corsair was put in a no-win situation with 3rd party software and firmware. The whole AseTek verses CoolIT AIO pumps is a prime example, and the Commander Mini, which has had unresolved firmware bugs since it came out. It is great news (I Hope) that Corsair has decided to take control of these products and develop the software/firmware for the Commander Pro in house. Hopefully you have some good programmers who will do it right this time.

 

As for reviews, I have read maybe 6 of them today on the Commander Pro - some better than others but none really dug into it. They just hooked the stuff up, ran Link for a little bit and set up some basic stuff. A few of them mentioned Link's buggy history but only in passing. None of them really tore into the device like I know Ray would. These same reviewers had nothing bad to say about earlier Corsair products that we all know have problems, so I do not feel like I can make any judgement based on any of this.

 

Now that you are not stuck with a 3rd party's buggy code, maybe Corsair would not be so legally constrained to engage Ray in some fashion. If the product is ALL Corsair, I would think you can send eval units to anyone you want. You know Ray is going to get his hands on one sooner or later. If I were Corsair, I would want his review data before I started selling the things only to find out - Oh No - There are problems. Then the whole vicious cycle starts again with frustrated customers who are the real victims suffering with shiny new stuff that does not work properly. Why not take advantage of Ray's willingness to help?

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I'm sorry if you're unhappy with our products and software. It may not seem like it, but there is substantial effort put into these products and software; I spend a minimum of two hours in meetings once a week just going over and prioritizing bugs, and was responsible for architecting a large Corsair Link "bible" to guide future development and ensure a more cohesive and overall better user experience.

 

But that being said, we can only do so much. If you don't feel like our stuff meets your needs and you're not satisfied - which is totally within your rights - you may be better served by a competitor's product. We'd rather have happy friends than angry customers.

 

Thank you again for your response. Our posts are actually overlapping. It is so unusual to actually get a response from Corsair - to be honest I am not used to it, though I am pleasantly surprised so again - Thank you.

 

You are right - I do not have to buy Corsair products and to be honest, I won't until these issues are resolved. I only got pulled into the saga going on in this forum because Link kept having problems, so like many I came to this forum to find out what I was doing wrong. I found out it was not me - it was Link. Then I started reading various threads, and the rest is history. If I had not already purchased Corsair products, I would have no dog in this fight,

 

That said, it's good to hear that bugs are taken seriously though it begs the question why simple things like remembering window -ve Y positions and getting the SMB Bus interlocking straight when Ray tells you the problem and the solution are not implemented release after release. From what I have read about the latest release, it is sadly a regression in many areas. If you read these threads in detail as you claim, then I don't need to repeat Ray's latest list of problems which appear in the 2nd post in the latest Link 4.7.0.77 release thread. Some bugs can be hard to deal with but others that should be a quick fix go unresolved, or worse, get worse.

 

We can go around and around but at the end of the day you are right - I do not have to buy anything from Corsair. The Commander Pro is a clever device and I would love to put one in my system. It's a personal decision and mine is that I will not purchase one until Ray has had a chance to put the thing through it's paces. I suspect I am not alone in this position. Will it make a difference to Corsair if I buy a Commander Pro - no. I am just one person. But I have to think that the history of things has caused Corsair to lose business and reputation. I have seen many posts from people exclaiming they are done with Corsair and will never buy another product and will spend their days recommending this to others. And it is rarely a hardware problem that makes them feel this way - it's always the software and firmware. That just can't be good for business.

 

Corsair should be glad SIV exists as without it many people would not continue to purchase your products. So why not give him a chance to evaluate one? You will get a better review than any I have read today (or ever) and quite probably save everyone the hassle of finding the problems the hard way. What would it cost - the price of an eval kit that you send to to many others? It's nothing in the scheme of things.

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The software used to be third party; with Link 3 it moved in house and then was redesigned from the ground up in Link 4.

 

Hmm - And this same team developed the firmware for the Commander Pro? I am sorry to say that is not increasing my confidence in the product at all...

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Hmm - And this same team developed the firmware for the Commander Pro? I am sorry to say that is not increasing my confidence in the product at all...

 

That's certainly your call. I'm personally extremely confident in our software/firmware team, which is the same software/firmware team that handles CUE and our HID products (though I manage neither of those). Just upgraded my desktop to a Commander Pro; Zero RPM fan mode and hardware playback of fan control is nice, desktop doesn't sound like a jet engine on startup anymore. ;)

 

I have sent a private message to Ray and am certainly willing to make hardware available to him, but bringing him into our development cycle for individual products is a bridge too far. I can make beta versions of Link software available, but actual hardware is out of the question.

 

Beyond that, though, he needs to be willing to work with us amicably and respectfully on these forums as well as accept decisions not within his control. I'm responsible for prioritizing bugs and features in Corsair Link software now; just like I have to accept when executives either want features I disagree with or excise features/products I'm passionate about, he would need to accept and respect my saying "no" to suggestions. His conduct in the forums doesn't make me optimistic, but I'm open to the possibility.

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Also, please remember that what a "quick fix" is to red-ray is not a "quick fix" for us. Every time we change the software, it has to go through regression testing. It may not seem like it to you, but our software is very heavily vetted and tested internally, and while he can just patch SIV and call it a day, we have to spend time to make sure patches don't break anything.

 

We are also still reliant on the CPUID SDK and support it as much as possible, but the avalanche of new platforms has resulted in some instability on that front as well that has made maintaining Corsair Link more complicated. We are instituting more checks on our side for stability testing and validation.

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That's certainly your call. I'm personally extremely confident in our software/firmware team, which is the same software/firmware team that handles CUE and our HID products (though I manage neither of those). Just upgraded my desktop to a Commander Pro; Zero RPM fan mode and hardware playback of fan control is nice, desktop doesn't sound like a jet engine on startup anymore. ;)

 

I have sent a private message to Ray and am certainly willing to make hardware available to him, but bringing him into our development cycle for individual products is a bridge too far. I can make beta versions of Link software available, but actual hardware is out of the question.

 

Beyond that, though, he needs to be willing to work with us amicably and respectfully on these forums as well as accept decisions not within his control. I'm responsible for prioritizing bugs and features in Corsair Link software now; just like I have to accept when executives either want features I disagree with or excise features/products I'm passionate about, he would need to accept and respect my saying "no" to suggestions. His conduct in the forums doesn't make me optimistic, but I'm open to the possibility.

 

Fair enough. That is between Red Ray and Corsair so I have no comment on this but thank you for providing this response.

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maybe corsair should offer some type of trade in for the mini to the pro, i just bought mine 2 months ago directly from corsair (along with 8 ML series fans, 4 LED strips, and a 750D case with a h100i and 3 ssd's, so yeah i have a few corsair products ) and there are some quirks to it, link works mostly ok except for a weird startup issue were i have to exit out of it then restart it to see everything they way i set it up.
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The software used to be third party; with Link 3 it moved in house and then was redesigned from the ground up in Link 4.

 

Ah, I was not aware of that.

 

Being a software developer myself, I understand there will always be bugs. No software of this scale will be bug-free. But having the same (sometimes critical) bugs or issues not be fixed over a year later is just not okay. That's what most people are complaining about.

For example, I'm a little baffled at how "Corsair Link 4 Service" can still take up 3% of my 7700k CPU. 3% is really unacceptable for a background process like this. It really seems to us that Corsair executives prioritize new features over fixing bugs and issues like these.

 

I really appreciate your many responses here though! I learned a few new things from your posts. It's also nice to just know we're being heard. Simply telling us "we're listening" while not showing any signs of that never does it for me. An actual conversation like this is so much better. So thank you for that!

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