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First time AIO cooler, concerns


ritchiedrama

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Hi!

 

I've recently just purchased an entire build in which I'll be putting together tomorrow, I spent pretty much all I saved on this.

 

7700K

h100i v2

z270 carbon gaming pro

16gb ram etc.

 

Now, I've never used an AIO - obviously I've read horror stories, I know many have when they first used one.

 

I'll be spending the rest of my budget on a 1080ti (will be using an old GPU until I get my hands on one) and this is my main concern...

 

If it leaks, is that it? Like the end of everything I bought? I know Corsair have been good to people in the past (case by case basis) but I believe that has changed since and they're only responsible for the actual cooler itself.

 

Long story short, if I'm concerned should I just stick with air?

 

Thanks.

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I know Corsair have been good to people in the past (case by case basis) but I believe that has changed since and they're only responsible for the actual cooler itself.
Still case by case. Where'd you hear the latter?
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Still case by case. Where'd you hear the latter?

 

Random YouTube comments/Reddit.

 

You know, the most reliable places on the internet =P

 

edit: GloriousGe0rge has been in touch with me on Reddit and told me not to worry. He understood my concern about the 1080Ti and said if it is a fault of the Corsair product they'd replace the value of this.

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Liquid will give you lower temps and a quieter system ... although the stock fans, when they get crankin', can be pretty noisy. That said, I've not seen my cooler fans at 100% (which would happen, for me, at 40C liquid temp) ever. It'll also allow you to overclock your 7700K a little higher. (I'm at 4.9 Ghz right now with my 7700K.)

Certainly, there's risk with *any* liquid cooler. There's also risk with the big air coolers that most are using on the high end CPUs as well - they are quite heavy and I've heard stories of damage due to the weight. If you move, you'll probably want to disconnect an air cooler ... not a problem with liquid.

The lower temps also keeps your computer area a little cooler. :-)

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One thing to keep in mind is you are likely to see some CPU temperature penalty while under GPU load with an air tower. No one has a 1080 Ti yet, but using the 980 Ti for comparison, it is a heater to be sure. Depending on whether you get a reference blower design on the open air fan type, that may make a sizable difference in how the air tower functions.

 

AIO water coolers do not explode. In a worst case scenario you might get a slow drip, either at the pump head or the tube insertion points into the radiator. I can't imagine any manufacturer putting out a Ti without a backplate and this is probably not the component that would be affected. Someone who lost a GPU because of a cooler leak, almost certainly would have a had an exposed GPU circuity on top.

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What are your temps with the 7700K at 4.9? Which Corsair cooler you have?

H100i v2 with Noctua NT-H1 TIM.

See attached image for pertinent details. "T_Sensor1" is an additional temp probe on my mobo that is about 1" below the top-mounted radiator fans; it's measuring the temperature of the intake air. Note that this was after a few rounds of Overwatch as well.

Max temp running RealBench for 2 hours was 83C.

temps.thumb.PNG.0f35a2885f3ad2d1183b752ae41c6495.PNG

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From what I can see, looks good. What direction are the fans blowing?

 

Up through the radiator. I did a lot of research and seemingly it makes very little/no difference.

 

A friend of mine has his set this way, so I figured I'd try it, can always move it if I feel the results aren't good enough.

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OK ... something to consider ... I can't see how much ventilation there is on the top of your case. We had someone else here on the forum that didn't have a open/mesh top but, instead, had slats that wound up trapping heat in the top, which prevented the radiator from properly cooling the liquid. He talked with the case manufacturer and reversed the fans to pull/intake rather than push/exhaust and that solved the issue. Something to keep in mind.
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OK ... something to consider ... I can't see how much ventilation there is on the top of your case. We had someone else here on the forum that didn't have a open/mesh top but, instead, had slats that wound up trapping heat in the top, which prevented the radiator from properly cooling the liquid. He talked with the case manufacturer and reversed the fans to pull/intake rather than push/exhaust and that solved the issue. Something to keep in mind.

 

I have the H440, doesn't have the best 'airflow' cooling etc. However, I can just switch the fans around as you said if there is an issue. :) thanks

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OK ... something to consider ... I can't see how much ventilation there is on the top of your case. We had someone else here on the forum that didn't have a open/mesh top but, instead, had slats that wound up trapping heat in the top, which prevented the radiator from properly cooling the liquid. He talked with the case manufacturer and reversed the fans to pull/intake rather than push/exhaust and that solved the issue. Something to keep in mind.

 

Hello.

 

I am all setup.

 

5GHZ @ 1.28v w/ 7700K

 

Max temps I've seen so far was in GTA5 it hit 75.

 

But most the time it was sat at 45-65 - but it jumps about a lot, like 45, 65, 55, 53, 65, every second its changing.

 

Same when idle, 33, 35, 33, 56, 43, 33 etc.

 

Any idea why? :)

 

What do you think though of the temps atm?

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This seems to be characteristic of the 7700K thus far and your temps consistent with that voltage level. The front page of the cooling forum is littered with people with the same concerns, although getting a new set-up may encourage people to pay for attention than they normally would.

 

If you are going to try understand the CPU's behavior, you'll need to monitor with a program that lets you see both individual core temperatures and individual core frequency/activity, preferably in a line graph form so you don't have to stare at it or memorize data in real time. Also, there may be some MSI specific BIOS tweaks for keeping the voltage on a tighter leash.

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This seems to be characteristic of the 7700K thus far and your temps consistent with that voltage level. The front page of the cooling forum is littered with people with the same concerns, although getting a new set-up may encourage people to pay for attention than they normally would.

 

If you are going to try understand the CPU's behavior, you'll need to monitor with a program that lets you see both individual core temperatures and individual core frequency/activity, preferably in a line graph form so you don't have to stare at it or memorize data in real time. Also, there may be some MSI specific BIOS tweaks for keeping the voltage on a tighter leash.

 

When do I have to be concerned about it though? Temps that is.

 

I've not seen it over 77 yet.

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This seems to be characteristic of the 7700K thus far and your temps consistent with that voltage level. The front page of the cooling forum is littered with people with the same concerns, although getting a new set-up may encourage people to pay for attention than they normally would.

 

If you are going to try understand the CPU's behavior, you'll need to monitor with a program that lets you see both individual core temperatures and individual core frequency/activity, preferably in a line graph form so you don't have to stare at it or memorize data in real time. Also, there may be some MSI specific BIOS tweaks for keeping the voltage on a tighter leash.

 

 

 

http://i.imgur.com/9VZGU55.jpg

 

This was after about 45 minutes of Overwatch.

 

I have RivaTuner running when I play, and although it says it hit 79 in HWINFO, it certainly didn't hit 79 for very long (maybe 2 seconds?) then it seems to sit around 60-68 while in game the whole time.

 

Does this seem normal?

 

Would changing my fan setup help? Currently Radiator at top, fans underneath the radiator blowing air into the radiator.

 

H440 case (would getting a case with better airflow help?) I am not sure as I'm liquid cooling, but i'd like to know.

 

I see that undermotherboard it says TMPIN3 hit 69. Is this an issue also?

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Prolonged and sustained CPU core temperatures above 80C. That is a common safe line and there is no exact stop point. It's not like an electrical fuse where you hit value X and then... lights out. If it was, then the thermal shutdown point would be at 80C instead of 95-105C (CPU model dependent).

 

As for comparing cooling versus innate CPU behavior, compare your starting H100i v3 Temp (coolant temp) to whatever it reaches during load. This is the amount that can be theoretically reduced through fan and pump speed increases. Obviously, 100% efficiency is not going to happen, but if your coolant temp goes up 7C while gaming, the most you can reduce your CPU temps is by 7C. All the rest is down to voltage and program instructions. There is a lot less you can do about that, other than turning down your overclock.

 

Sometimes jumpy temperatures are a result of too much TIM or a smeared mount job. If you used the the pre-applied TIM, this is fairly unlikely. Also, a lot of other 7700K owners are reporting the same thing. Whether or not this is something that will be improved on with later Intel/MB BIOS updates is another matter. I would still suggest you use a monitoring program that lets you see individual core activity and temps. This should give you a better understanding as to how resources are being allocated. One core popping off to 65C when opening a program is different than all 4 swinging up and down with every click of the mouse.

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http://i.imgur.com/9VZGU55.jpg

 

This was after about 45 minutes of Overwatch.

 

Would changing my fan setup help? Currently Radiator at top, fans underneath the radiator blowing air into the radiator.

 

H440 case (would getting a case with better airflow help?) I am not sure as I'm liquid cooling, but i'd like to know.

 

I see that undermotherboard it says TMPIN3 hit 69. Is this an issue also?

 

I don't think any of these values are case, cooler, or fan related. You are running a new CPU pretty much at the upper limit (1.30v). The temperature ceiling was always going to be your restriction, not cooling capacity. At that voltage (and most any other), the CPU will heat up faster than heat can be transferred out. This is where things like delidding come into play and I am suggesting you go do that.

 

However, a couple of things jump out when I looked at your data. I am assuming you cleared the history (or launched) right before the game started. If this is not true, correct me. Your voltage overshoot is about 0.020-0.025. That is OK and appears to be inline with other 7700K owners are reporting. However, your minimum voltage never dropped and your low CPU temps never went below 38-40C. If Overwatch was open the entire time, than the voltage may never step down and the CPU cores will not either. That would make sense. But if you have closed the game, than the voltage should have toned down some. How did you set the overclock? Manual Voltage? Adaptive? Offset?

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I don't think any of these values are case, cooler, or fan related. You are running a new CPU pretty much at the upper limit (1.30v). The temperature ceiling was always going to be your restriction, not cooling capacity. At that voltage (and most any other), the CPU will heat up faster than heat can be transferred out. This is where things like delidding come into play and I am suggesting you go do that.

 

However, a couple of things jump out when I looked at your data. I am assuming you cleared the history (or launched) right before the game started. If this is not true, correct me. Your voltage overshoot is about 0.020-0.025. That is OK and appears to be inline with other 7700K owners are reporting. However, your minimum voltage never dropped and your low CPU temps never went below 38-40C. If Overwatch was open the entire time, than the voltage may never step down and the CPU cores will not either. That would make sense. But if you have closed the game, than the voltage should have toned down some. How did you set the overclock? Manual Voltage? Adaptive? Offset?

 

I just set manual voltage at 1.3, Auto had it set to 1.38 or something. I did clear my history before the game, yeah.

 

My vCore is sat at 1.304 the entire time on desktop for the last 20 minutes.

 

I was under the impression 1.304v isn't that high from everything else I've read?

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I don't think any of these values are case, cooler, or fan related. You are running a new CPU pretty much at the upper limit (1.30v). The temperature ceiling was always going to be your restriction, not cooling capacity. At that voltage (and most any other), the CPU will heat up faster than heat can be transferred out. This is where things like delidding come into play and I am suggesting you go do that.

 

However, a couple of things jump out when I looked at your data. I am assuming you cleared the history (or launched) right before the game started. If this is not true, correct me. Your voltage overshoot is about 0.020-0.025. That is OK and appears to be inline with other 7700K owners are reporting. However, your minimum voltage never dropped and your low CPU temps never went below 38-40C. If Overwatch was open the entire time, than the voltage may never step down and the CPU cores will not either. That would make sense. But if you have closed the game, than the voltage should have toned down some. How did you set the overclock? Manual Voltage? Adaptive? Offset?

 

 

This is what is happening:

 

[ame]

[/ame]
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You may want to look through the Asus overclock guide for 7700K. It is not for your motherboard, the but the obstacles and power levels are going to be the same.

 

You might also look at this comparison between various coolers. I am not suggesting it as cooler evaluation, but as comparative data points for 5.0/1.30v 7700K. Note the difference between a single frame cooler like an H80i v2 and the 280mm double H115i is about 3C. Even at these levels, it is not the cooler that is the determining factor. Also note the "delta" value on the 5.0 chart. In this comparison, the delta is room temperature to peak CPU core temperature (the room is at 20.0C). Really high deltas like those again indicate the CPU is the limitation. 1.30v is about as high as most people will want to go for daily use. The temperature to clock gain gets very steep on the other side of that value, unless you have one miraculous sample.

 

You probably also want to convert your fixed voltage overclock into an adaptive value. You could run fixed with full c-states, EIST, and C-6 enabled, but that does something of a half job and C-6 can still cause funny issues coming out of sleep or at idle. Your upper CPU temps won't change, but it should let the voltage step down at idle and give your cores some more down time. I am not familiar withe MSI BIOS, but it should be easy to find it online and really only requires you toggle the selector to adaptive and enter the 1.28 or 1.30v into the appropriate box. Definitely no AUTO voltage when shooting for 5.0GHz.

 

EDIT: You don't have a TIM problem. That is just the OS and all your programs doing their thing and those temp jumps indicate when a particular core is active. Adaptive voltage plus EIST and C1E may tone that down some.

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You may want to look through the Asus overclock guide for 7700K. It is not for your motherboard, the but the obstacles and power levels are going to be the same.

 

You might also look at this comparison between various coolers. I am not suggesting it as cooler evaluation, but as comparative data points for 5.0/1.30v 7700K. Note the difference between a single frame cooler like an H80i v2 and the 280mm double H115i is about 3C. Even at these levels, it is not the cooler that is the determining factor. Also note the "delta" value on the 5.0 chart. In this comparison, the delta is room temperature to peak CPU core temperature (the room is at 20.0C). Really high deltas like those again indicate the CPU is the limitation. 1.30v is about as high as most people will want to go for daily use. The temperature to clock gain gets very steep on the other side of that value, unless you have one miraculous sample.

 

You probably also want to convert your fixed voltage overclock into an adaptive value. You could run fixed with full c-states, EIST, and C-6 enabled, but that does something of a half job and C-6 can still cause funny issues coming out of sleep or at idle. Your upper CPU temps won't change, but it should let the voltage step down at idle and give your cores some more down time. I am not familiar withe MSI BIOS, but it should be easy to find it online and really only requires you toggle the selector to adaptive and enter the 1.28 or 1.30v into the appropriate box. Definitely no AUTO voltage when shooting for 5.0GHz.

 

EDIT: You don't have a TIM problem. That is just the OS and all your programs doing their thing and those temp jumps indicate when a particular core is active. Adaptive voltage plus EIST and speedstep may tone that down some.

 

Well, I really have no idea how to do the adaptive voltage thing, lol.

 

I know where EIST is, as I disabled it. I did think about enabling it, though. As well, I only game and if I'm gaming it doesn't use it anyway, does it?

 

edit: I'm thinking of getting some thermal grizzly paste (using the one that came pre-applied atm)

 

Worth doing?

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There is no reason not to enable EIST/speedstep. Nearly every modern game will properly engage all the cores during play and for any that don't, switching to the Windows Performance Power Plan from the desktop is an easier and more effective way to handle it. Again, this probably won't change load temps much, but should settle down your idle and normal activity results.

 

I use the Grizzly on my 5930K and GPU. It might have nicked 3C off the higher TDP CPUs. I don't know how much it will do for 7700K, but other than the price, it certainly won't hurt and is not overly difficult to use.

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There is no reason not to enable EIST and speedstep. Nearly every modern game will properly engage all the cores during play and for any that don't, switching to the Windows Performance Power Plan from the desktop is an easier and more effective way to handle it. Again, this probably won't change load temps much, but should settle down your idle and normal activity results.

 

I use the Grizzly on my 5930K and GPU. It might have nicked 3C off the higher TDP CPUs. I don't know how much it will do for 7700K, but other than the price, it certainly won't hurt and is not overly difficult to use.

 

I enabled EIST - it didn't do anything though, still at 5ghz all the time.

 

I also changed:

 

CPU SA voltage to 1.250 (it was on auto and set to like 1.37+)

CPU IO Voltage 1.200 (also at a much higher number)

 

^ was this a smart move?

 

Edit: I ran Prime95 for about 30 seconds and temps hit 90 pretty fast, lol.

 

TMPIN3 hit 86 in that time too from an idle of 34. I'm still not sure if TMPIN3 is even important?

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The System Agent Voltage and I/O voltage will have an impact on your Memory overclocking and not CPU temperature. Setting fixed values was likely a smart move and most every platform on DDR4 has needed manual settings for those values when using higher frequencies for the DRAM. However, I have no idea what values are appropriate for Z270 and this can be both frequency and individual CPU specific. That raises another question. What speed is your memory? If you enabled XMP for some frequencies (like 2800 or 3000), the BIOS may have automatically set your BCLK to 125 which would force you to use manual/fixed voltage (40x125=5000MHz instead of 50x100=5000).

 

EIST/Speedstep will allow your CPU to work at intermediate frequencies for low level background tasks. You can usually see the clocks working at the default, non-turbo level (4.2GHz). However, since you are still on manual/fixed voltage, it's going to provide 1.30v with the lower frequency anyway, so this is wasted on the current set-up. If there is one power saving feature you could disable, EIST would be it. What you really want is the adaptive voltage so your voltage will step down to about half that value at idle. That might knock your idle temps down by 10C and there is no reason to have it sitting at 5.0/1.30v every moment it is running.

 

I don't know what the TMPIN3 represents. This is motherboard and/or platform specific.

 

If you found your way into the BIOS to set the manual voltage, find your back to set it to adaptive. It will be in the same place. When you select adaptive from the pop-up menu, it should create two additional boxes. Usually you input the the max value you want (1.28-1.30) into the 'Additional Voltage Box' while leaving the 'Offset' to AUTO. This will cause the CPU to use the standard voltage table when below the turbo frequency (4.5) and your voltage whenever it jumps to 5.0. Again, this does not do anything for your synthetic stress tests and is for normal usage power/temp reductions. In fact, the synthetics might be worse when using adaptive. I don't see any reason to keep running them unless you are doing so for stability. You know they are going to be warm. Focus on the programs you actually use.

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