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push/pull configuration


EthanC

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I just now realized that the case probably wont work with this cooler

crap

 

so I just bought the Corsair h115i because simply during games, my case gets to hot for my comfort...

 

MSI 970A-G43 AMD MOTHERBOARD

AMD FX 8310 CPU

RADEON R9 270X GPU

CM ELITE 430 CASE http://www.coolermaster.com/case/mid-tower/elite-430-black/

8GB DDR3 MEMORY

WINDOWS 10 64-BIT

 

I have one fan that came with the case in front and possibility of adding 5 more. 2 on top (where the cooler will go) one on the bottom, one in the back, and one on the side.. I have done my research, but still wonder about push/pull configuration.

I want to push the hot air up and out and the cool air in, right? So I will then put my two fans on top or below the radiator itself to blow the air out, on top, correct? then use the back and side to draw cooler air in, causing positive airflow in my case.

 

see my airflow theory with the attached file..

1276202404_AIRFLOWTHEORYfinal.png.7ea037b25d071bc360cea48d22bed37c.png

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I looked at your air flow theory. The fans should be on the bottom of the radiator. I wouldn't trust the fans and screws to support the entire radiator rig. I pull air DOWN through the radiator. The negative air flow will keep your radiator dust free so you don't get a massive dust build up. I think most people do the opposite, but even Linus recommends my way. You can then exhaust the warm air. I have a Cooler Master case also and it works great.
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You are fine.

 

Rear fan - Exhaust. You need to have very unusual circumstances to benefit from running the rear as intake. In this instance, it will not be to your advantage. The radiator will restrict the volume of air you move through the top of the case. It cannot exhaust everything on it's own. Also, most people move the back of the tower near a wall. Heat pours out the PCI-E slots, then is reintroduced into the system through a rear intake.

 

Your PSU fan pulls air into the unit with it's fan, then blows it out the rear slot below the PCI-E opening. Not consequential to your flow anyway, but keep that in mind if you have a lot GPU heat.

 

Radiator Push/Pull - I rarely advise people to do this on 280mm radiator, unless they are doing it for aesthetic reasons or because they have deliberately chosen low pressure fans. I put anywhere from 200-230 watts through my CPU on an older H110. I have tried more than 30 different fans models and at no point is the fan ever the limitation. You probably have a lot less heat to get rid off and can put whatever fan you want up there. A single pair of 140mm fans at moderate speed will cover any load. This is the advantage of a 280mm radiator -- large surface area.

 

As for which side to put the fans on, push (underneath blowing up) is the most popular. It might be 2-3C cooler (inconsequential). It usually is slightly less noisy than "Pull" because of the greater distance of the fan blades to the radiator fins. That I am a little more keen on, but if you prefer the look of the radiator as opposed to the fans -- do it. You can always change your mind later. Push/below the radiator usually requires a second set of 6-32 screws. Very short ones for the radiator to case mount work best, but this is very case specific.

 

I don't want to talk about the Linus Tech video. It has confused more people than it has ever helped. If you want to completely prevent dust, cover every single opening with a dust filer, then put a cover or the whole thing when not in use. In the alternative, set your case up for the best airflow, ignore unnecessary filters that restrict air velocity and necessitate more fan speed and noise, and then take the 10 minutes to dust it out every 2-3 months.

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As for which side to put the fans on, push (underneath blowing up) is the most popular.

 

Push is the most popular, but the only way to clean the radiator is to remove the fans. Keep removing the fans every 2-3 months and there is a good chance you will strip out your screw holes. Then you will need a new radiator. I will never make that mistake again. PULL air DOWN for a clean radiator and cooler air from the top. The air warmed by the radiator that you are pulling down into your case is insignificant. If Corsair ever improves the screw holes on the radiator, then I would reconsider-- but really, why bother removing the fans. I monitor my temps all the time and all good here.

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so my case will be fine with the 280 radiator and the fans? and I have read reviews on amazon, one said to just go to your local hardware store and get longer threaded screws, they would be better and last longer.. anyways,

one of the main reasons is this:

temps at idle:

http://i.imgur.com/PFQPjvi.png

temps during and after GTA V:

http://i.imgur.com/GSGmYPA.png

 

and this is correct?

http://imgur.com/JaOAYsu.png

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Push is the most popular, but the only way to clean the radiator is to remove the fans.

 

Now that is the point trying to be made in the video. Unfortunately, the obvious catch is dust still accumulates in between the fan and radiator no matter which side you put them on.

 

On most cases and configurations, using the top panel as additional intake puts 4 fans bringing air into the case and only the rear as an exhaust. That puts a lot of pressure (literally) on the rear fan to remove all the air from the case. You are certainly welcome to try, but it does keep warmer air in the case for a longer period of time and may complicate the flow within the case. I don't know the AMD chips well enough to make a recommendation on temperatures.

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Now that is the point trying to be made in the video. Unfortunately, the obvious catch is dust still accumulates in between the fan and radiator no matter which side you put them on.

 

I have a air filter I can put between them if that would help me.. and what video?

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Don't watch the video. It is comically staged and half meant as a joke. It is responsible for countless people coming to the wrong conclusion about how their system works.

 

As for dust filters, this is a matter of personal choice. If you have a challenging environment with extreme amounts of dust or cats, it may be a wise decision to cover up. For everyone else, the trade-off is you need to run your fans a few hundred RPM faster to overcome the additional resistance. I like cool and quiet and am perfectly happy to clean my PC every 60 days. Other people are terrified of the little flakes. You have decide what the higher priority is for you.

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well I have a 280 filter (length wise) and a 140 filter which came with the case, I can put them in between the fans and radiator since I do have a cat and I pet her often.... hair goes everywhere.....and the computer is on the ground between my desk and bed.. I am sure its probably not the best ideal location but I wouldnt have anywhere else to put it..

 

I still dont know what video you mean and my other question, I dont believe, was answered.... will this fit the case?

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Sorry, I thought you had already figured that one. It appears to be an all 120mm case, so you are restricted to a 240mm radiator up top. You need the H100i v2 or similar instead. All the rest of the discussion is the same. Doubtful the 280mm filter will fit either, but long term you may wish to pick some up for the case. Floor + cat = fuzz balls
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Putting a filter between the fans and the rad would severely restrict the airflow and you would still have to remove the fans to clean the filter. I've been using an H110i GT for the best part of 2 years and I have never had to remove my fans from the rad to clean it. All my intake fans have filters and I have a slightly positive pressure, so at least air/dust doesn't get sucked in through every orifice. Decent filters should reduce the cat hair getting in to the computer, but if you can raise the case off the floor that would help too.
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well I have a 280 filter (length wise) and a 140 filter which came with the case, I can put them in between the fans and radiator since I do have a cat and I pet her often.... hair goes everywhere.....and the computer is on the ground between my desk and bed.. I am sure its probably not the best ideal location but I wouldnt have anywhere else to put it..

 

I still dont know what video you mean and my other question, I dont believe, was answered.... will this fit the case?

 

[ame]

[/ame]
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No! Take it down! Don't spread this joke any further! Sigh...

 

Look at that mess. I don't even know what it is. Yellow shag carpet? Look around the lab. Look at the case it came from. Immaculate. Look at the fan blades themselves. Perfect. Wow, not a speck of dust anywhere to be found and yet it looks like someone swept up the floor in a wood shop and poured it onto the fins. Hmmm. He has to run around the lab to find a radiator where he actually has the fans in pull (because all the others are in push), then suspiciously decides not to remove one of the fan to show us what's underneath. I won't bore anyone with probability rates of dust bypassing all the charged surfaces inside the computer case just to come to rest on a non-charged surface near the end of the ride.

 

This doesn't pass the common sense test. So the fans are in push blowing air out the top of the case. Thus, the air entering the radiator comes from inside the case. 1) Where is all the yellow fiber inside the case? To get to the radiator, it has to enter the case first. Every single strand went into the top of the radiator and didn't stick to anything else? 2) There is nothing on the bottom side of the fan. If stuff is coming from underneath, some of it will stick to the fan blade. It cannot pass through the grill and blade assembly perfectly. 3) His argument is you can then just "wipe it all off" without taking the fans off. While it's still inside the case? Then all of that comes down on your motherboard and GPU. Not a good trade. So you still have to take it down to clean it. Strike three. As an added bonus, does anyone think it's reasonable to go years without doing a little maintenance cleaning? Perhaps if you haven't vacuumed your house in a few years either, this kind of thing can happen to you.

 

The obvious solution is a front air filter that stops all of this from entering the case in the first place. That can be removed and cleaned easily. If you have an extremely difficult environment (barn, industrial filing plant, Outback cat farm) then you know it already and this kind of stuff is a daily part of your life for which you take precautions --- dust filters on intake openings and put a cover or the whole thing when not in use. His initial points in the video are mostly valid, then he ruins his credibility with this stunt. It's so obviously staged and unbelievable.

 

As Snapper mentioned, getting the case off the floor will do more your normal dust/carpet fiber accumulation than anything else, including filters.

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I once took apart a computer that had been in continuous use (on a very dusty landfill site) for over 5 years and nowhere inside was anywhere near that dirty.

 

Really ? That's about what I get after 3 months of use in push UP config and my case is on a table top. And I am in a sealed bedroom, no pets and I vacuum every day with a new vacuum cleaner. But this apartment, bedroom must be 50 years old, which is typical, as all the homes I have lived in where built in the 1960`s. In many urban areas people still live in homes and apartments built in the 1880`s again this is typical. I clean out my vacuum every week. The average home or apartment has an incredible amount of dust. Unless you are in a brand new constructed home, This is about right.

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I think your previous illustration with intake from the front and bottom, exhaust from top and rear is fine. Whether you put the radiator fans above or below the radiator is up to you. I would choose below and exhausting up, but I might put them above if I wanted to hide the fans from view. I think you are limited to 120mm fans everywhere but the front, but that does not change fan orientation.
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someone do it for me then:

http://i.imgur.com/r1oKnim.png

 

and I recieved my cooler today and unfortunately I dont think it is going to fit at all... 140mm /= 120mm space... its about an inch to long for my fans on top

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I think your previous illustration with intake from the front and bottom, exhaust from top and rear is fine. Whether you put the radiator fans above or below the radiator is up to you. I would choose below and exhausting up, but I might put them above if I wanted to hide the fans from view. I think you are limited to 120mm fans everywhere but the front, but that does not change fan orientation.

 

sorry about double post, didn't see that there was a second page.

 

turns out I have to return my cooler, seeing as how the fans wont even fit, at least when I place them on top, the hols are about an inch off, so that tells me my dimensions were off.... I think when I get a working one, I will have fans underneath, having air going up and thru....I am not a person who really care about aesthetics that much so above or below wont really matter to me...

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well I asked a question on Amazon about if the Thermaltake Water 3.0 Extreme S 240mm AIO Liquid Cooling System

Thermaltake Water 3.0 Extreme S

and I guess a seller answered that I would need a full tower case... I just want to find a 240 cooler that will fit the top of my tower that is only 7.5 inches across..

CPU cooler height: 163mm / 6.4 inch

Top: 120mm fan x 2 (optional)

Front: 120mm blue LED fan x 1 (installed)

Rear: 80/90/120mm fan x1 (optional)

Side: 120mm fan x 1 (optional)

Bottom:80/90/120mm fan x 1 (optional)

 

now it says fan as optional so I would tend to believe that the radiator part, which is just as wide, would still fit.. now there is an inch gap between the two fans (from top view) so I would only guesstimate that it wont entirely have the fans open, some portion will be blocked...

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I would be cautious about answers received through Amazon. The accuracy rate struggles to break 20% and some answers are just...

 

CM needs to clean up their product page. A quick glance at the specifications suggests a 240mm radiator will fit up top. That would include the TT 240mm size and the Corsair H100i v2. However, the very last picture shows the motherboard and it is right up to the top of the case. I am little concerned anything beyond a 25mm fan won't fit up there above the memory modules. in fact, CM doesn't say anything about radiator compatibility, something they do for other cases.

 

I cannot tell depth in the picture. If the board sits back far enough, the radiator and fans can some down without a collision. You need to look in the case and see, but it is starting to look like this case can handle a rear single slot radiator or it's an air tower. I suppose you could mount the fans externally, but I choose another option.

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you need to exhaust the PSU unit through the bottom of the case i.e the fan is down. Put your case on a solid piece of wood not carpet if its on the floor. Follow the Linus tech tips and mount the radiator on top and the fans below the radiator to PULL cool air in. plus easy to clean the radiator with a simple vacuuming and cleaning the dust filters. remove any excess drive cages not being used. replace the stock fans with high air flow fans (corsair, noctua or other mfgr.) I think with your case you can mount up to 4 fans on the front of the case. you should be fine.
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The fan side of any PSU is the intake. It will exhaust heat out the mesh rear panel with the power switch. if you are going to pick some Linus Tech tip to follow... pick any except that one. It is the worst conceived, misunderstood, and most improperly cited video of all time. It should have disappeared into obscurity years ago, but the magic self-perpetuating Google algorithm keeps it right on page one.

 

The original poster's problem is finding a radiator to fit the case. Cooler Master's website is not as clear as it should be as to what fits.

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http://assets.coolermaster.com/global/upload/product_feature/Web-430.jpg

"retaining holes for water cooler".... thus that pictures only shows enough space for a 120 cooler or fan, which is listed under the specs: Rear: 120mm fan x1 (optional)

1. so my best hope right now is to either buy a 120 cooler, and buy some extra fans, or buy a full tower case so I can get the use of a 240 cooler....

 

2. so I have to switch my PSU around and put the fan facing at the bottom?

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I believe those are the only choices. As for the PSU, you don't have to place it fan down. As mentioned above, if you are on a carpet, either put in something under it (like a board) or leave it fan up. Power supplies are made to work in high temp environments. Unless you have both a very warm internal air temperature and are drawing a substantial portion of the units max wattage, I wouldn't be too concerned about it's air temp.
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