wlcws Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 I started out with what I though was a simple task and have ended up on an expensive journey. I built a decent computer last spring and am just trying to increase the PC3200 memory. The package included a house-brand 512MB module from MWave.com. I then started using a UseNet news reader program named NewsPlex which is very RAM and Page Memory intensive. A second MWave memory 512 module installed in October stopped the program from crashing, but I recognized that 2GB would really make things hum nicely. MWave offered a Corsair 1GB PC3200 module with the same specs as their "MWave brand", so I bought a stick. I've owned a lot of Corsair memory over the years and it has never given me a problem - even in the distant past when over clocking a 200mHz CPU. It installed OK with the BIOS memory settings on the "By SPD" values and all 2GB was recognized. Then while I was either at work or sleeping with NewsPlex running, my computer would just shut down. After the third shut-down, I started manually selecting BIOS settings, but never did solve it. I figured it was due to mixing memory brands and so bought another $185 stick of Corsair DDR400. I just spent over 10 hours trying to get these two modules to work together in my PC yesterday, but no luck. When both modules are installed, the only way I can start my PC to get at the BIOS settings is by clearing the CMOS - and this only gives me one shot. After making all the changes back to my original settings and trying a set of memory settings, my computer seldom boots past the POST. Most of the time it never displays anything and pressing Reset has no effect. I was able to launch XP twice during all this time, but one of the modules wasn't recognized at all one time and only 1.5GB was recognized the second time. Of course, removing either 1GB module clears up the problem. I have updated the BIOS to the latest rev. I tried with and without my SCSI controller card (I have a Plextor SCSI burner) installed since it seems to cause a conflict when I had the "Onboard SATA" enabled. I also tried every combination using all three memory slots after finding a message recommending that slots 1 & 3 should be used. I started out scribbling down various settings on a scratch paper, but it is just too much to keep tracked of. What I really need is someone a lot smarter than I am to tell me which settings to play with and which should be left alone. I was hoping to find a spec sheet on the Corsair site for my Value Select memory that would recommend a few settings to help me zero in on a workable solution. This module is listed by the Memory Configurator, but the latency column is marked "n/a". Popping these modules in and out of the slots can't be doing them any good. BTW, it's definitely not a heating problem. I am using a full sized tower server case with 4 case fans (2 in the front & 2 out the rear) in addition to the two power supply fans. Plus the side has been off of my case for the last several weeks while fighting this battle. If, as I suspect, there is no easy solution, then what are my options. Since I have more money tied up in memory than in the KT600, a new motherboard is cheaper. Three of our four home computers, plus the one at my wife's store and one that I built for a friend are built on Soyo boards and I've never run into a problem like this. Would a Soyo KT880 fix my issue? Thanks in advance for any and all help. Motherboard: Soyo KT600 Dragon Ultra Platinum Edition CPU: Athlon XP 2800+ AGP: 8x Asylum GeForce 5200FX with 256MB onboard RAM Adaptec Ultra160 SCSI Controller Card. Antec 400W Power Supply. RAM: Two Corsair Value Select #VS1GB400C3 Info from MWave site: 128MX64 PC3200 1024MB CL3 DDR DIMM 1024MB, DDR400, Non-ECC, 184 DIMM, unbuffered, CAS2.5 I think I am able to read the SPD values using PC Wizard 2004 version 1.632, and they are slightly different for each module. It reports the following values for: (Cas / tRCD / tRP / tRAS) Lot# 0445054: (3/4/4/8) and Lot# 0448022: (3/3/3/8). My Soyo Bios settings [with possible choices] and values I tried. CPU Freq: set to 166 DRAM Clock [sPD; 133; 166; 200]: set to 200mHz CPU Voltage: set to 1.650 DDR Core Voltage [2.5; 2.6; 2.7; 2.8]: Tried 2.5, 2.6 & 2.7v DRAM Timing [Manual; SPD]: Tried both. When SPD is selected, the next 5 values are unselectable. CAS Latency [1.5; 2; 2.5; 3] Tried 2.5 mostly, but a few 3's. Bank Interleave [Disabled; 2; 4]: Tried all 3 settings Precharge To Active (TRP)[2; 3; 4; 5]: Tried 3 & 4 TRAS Non-DDR400/DDR400[5t/6t; 6t/8t; 7t/10t; 8t/12t]: Tried 8, 10 & 12T. Active To Cmd (TRCD)[2; 3; 4; 5]: Tried 3 & 4 DRAM Burst Length[4; 8]: Mostly 4 DRAM Command Rate[1; 2]: 2 always. DRAM Access Time[2; 3]: 3 always. DRAM Queue Depth[2; 3; 4]: Tried 4 & 2. DRAM twTr[1; 2; 3]: Tried 1 & 2 Write Recovery Time[2; 3]: 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsair Employees RAM GUY Posted December 14, 2004 Corsair Employees Share Posted December 14, 2004 That may suggest the modules may have different SPD's. Can you test the modules one at a time and run Everest 1.5 on them and see what the bios sets the timings too for each module. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlcws Posted December 15, 2004 Author Share Posted December 15, 2004 Thanks for the fast reply RAM Guy. My post was long enough (sorry about that) but I should have mentioned that Tuesday is the beginning a 4 night rotation in my work schedule. Adding a 90 minute commute to my normal 12 hour shift doesn't leave a lot of testing time but this is a priority. Just so you know, my slow response isn't due to disinterest. Thanks also for pointing me to Everest. I followed advice to at least 3 similar freeware products only to discover that they didn't work with the AMD CPU's after I installed them. This one seems to work with everything and will make a nice addition to my tool pouch. Since I have seated and removed these modules so many times, I am wondering if I should clean them with isopropyl alcohol on a cotton swab. Good idea or bad? Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlcws Posted December 15, 2004 Author Share Posted December 15, 2004 Here are various Everest reports that I hope are helpful to you. It does confirm that the SPD of my first Corsair module (Lot# 0445054-0) is 3.0-4-4-8. The second module which arrived Monday (Lot# 0448022-0) is 3.0-3-3-8. Just for grins, I removed the Corsair memory, reinstalled both 512MB MWave modules and ran a Everest report. Since it showed that both of those modules are 2.5-3-3-8, I added my latest Corsair module and fired up my PC for one last report. I never touched my BIOS during any of this memory swapping and the timing is under SPD control. It ran with this mixed memory configuration for 35 minutes before shutting down on its own like it did when the first Corsair module was in the mix. Sorry, but I can't do any more testing today. I've been up since 7:30 yesterday morning and need to get up at 4PM to go back to work tonight. Thanks again for your help. BillReports.zip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsair Employees RAM GUY Posted December 15, 2004 Corsair Employees Share Posted December 15, 2004 First off, I am sorry, but I would NOT suggest mixing memory, ever. And with the KT600 chipset when you use more than one module or more than 2 single sided modules according to the chipset white papers DDR333 is suggested and if you have more than 4 banks or 2 double sided modules DDR266 is suggested and if you have a 166 MHz or faster CPU the memory Frequency should be in sync with your CPU. That is a limitation of the chipset. Now that being said, I would try and set the timings manually to Cass 2.5-3-3-7 and set the memory frequency at DDR333 and then set the Dim Voltage to 2.7 Volts and test the system with http://www.memtest.org, if you have problems try setting the memory Freq at DDR266. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlcws Posted December 16, 2004 Author Share Posted December 16, 2004 Thank you for your help. I may put it to use when I get home this morning depending upon what else my wife tosses on my plate. I could use a little more of your advice just to make sure that I understand everything. Especially when it comes time to upgrade/ replace our 4th computer in spring. I don't want to buy any other mistakes and I guess I should have done more research when buying the DDR400 memory with the KT600 board. Just so you know, I wouldn't have considered mixing memory until I crossed paths with a message posted in a NewsGroup that made it sound like things had advanced to the point where the BIOS could supply each module with whatever its SPD timing specs were. Although it didn't come right out and mention independent timing for each module, it seemed to point that way as evidence on how far "plug-n-play" has advanced over the years. I obviously misread something. 1) The settings you have given me should bring stability to my PC but if I need to slow the memory down to 266mHz to get there, should I then try playing with the secondary BIOS memory settings (Burst Length, Access Time, Queue Depth...) to squeeze out every ounce of performance or is it not worth the couple days of memtest86 time? 2) Even if I bought a 400mHz Athlon XP 3200 to match the memory frequency, I couldn't clock the memory at 400mHz on this kt600 board. Is this right? 3) Could I successfully use both my Corsair PC3200 modules on a Soyo KT880 Dragon 2 at 400mHz with a 400mHz CPU? Based upon information from your website, I realize that the Matched Pair / Twin Pack variety is the best route but is it an absolute necessity? 4) My original plan to use both "extra" 512MB MWave modules in one of the other computers (also KT600 chipsets, but with Athlon XP 2000+ CPU's) should work if I drop the frequency to 266mHz to match the CPU and also move the existing 256MB PC2700 module to the 3rd computer giving that one 512MB of PC2700 RAM. Thanks again, Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsair Employees RAM GUY Posted December 16, 2004 Corsair Employees Share Posted December 16, 2004 First thing, I think this will help understand the basic limitations. If the FSB of your CPU is 400 For Intel and 100 MHz for AMD, the memory speed supports only DDR 266. If the FSB of your CPU is 533 For Intel and 133/166 MHz for AMD, the memory speed supports DDR 266/333 If the FSB of your CPU is 800 MHz for Intel and 200 MHz for AMD, the memory speed supports DDR 333/400 1) The settings you have given me should bring stability to my PC but if I need to slow the memory down to 266mHz to get there, should I then try playing with the secondary BIOS memory settings (Burst Length, Access Time, Queue Depth...) to squeeze out every ounce of performance or is it not worth the couple days of memtest86 time? A: It's really hard to answer that, as it is really personal preference as to weather its worth it or not. However, some minor playing when you have time may yield more performance with minor tweaking. 2) Even if I bought a 400MHz Athlon XP 3200 to match the memory frequency, I couldn't clock the memory at 400mHz on this kt600 board. Is this right? A: You should really consult with the MB maker as to their spec. But there have been a few running this chipset with 2 DDR400 modules and a 3200+ CPU, so I know the chipset will do it. 3) Could I successfully use both my Corsair PC3200 modules on a Soyo KT880 Dragon 2 at 400 MHz with a 400 MHz CPU? Based upon information from your website, I realize that the Matched Pair / Twin Pack variety is the best route but is it an absolute necessity? A: I really don’t know the answer to that as I have not seen this MB as of yet, but I would do a search on some of the forums and see what other users have to say about this MB. 4) My original plan to use both "extra" 512MB MWave modules in one of the other computers (also KT600 chipsets, but with Athlon XP 2000+ CPU's) should work if I drop the frequency to 266mHz to match the CPU and also move the existing 256MB PC2700 module to the 3rd computer giving that one 512MB of PC2700 RAM. A: I would try some of the settings I gave you and just test with http://www.memtest.org to be sure the system is stable, but more than likely DDR333 with the modules in slots 1-3 will give the best results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlcws Posted December 23, 2004 Author Share Posted December 23, 2004 Just a follow-up to express my thanks. I followed your advice on Monday and my computer didn't lock up during the post like it did before. I went through 3 cycles (~7 hours) of MemTest86+ without a single error. I then began loading my cpu up with various programs and tasks and just completed converting 4+ hours of Avi's into Dvd format. My computer has never performed better. I was also able to increase the memory in two other computers without hitting a single snag. Hope all the Ram Guys get everything they asked for for Christmas. You deserve it. With your help, I received my gift a little early. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsair Employees RAM GUY Posted December 23, 2004 Corsair Employees Share Posted December 23, 2004 Well thanks for the compliment and I hope everyone has a great Christmas and a happy New Year! :headbang2 :headbang2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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