Corsair: Please Respond to HG10 N980 Install Difficulties

[mattlach]

Dear Corsair Reps,

 

I think the HG10 N980 & N970 release date? may have fallen beneath your radar, as the product is now launched, but it has turned into a trouble shooting thread for difficult HG10 N980 installs.

 

We are a little disappointed we haven't heard from Corsair in the thread, but it may be our fault for posing in a thread with a misleading and old title, so lets try it again here:

 

Thus far I think there is only one confirmed user in the other thread with a problem free install, and at least 8 who are struggling to get it to work right. (This is not necessarily indicative of the product, as people with problems tend to post more than people without) but it does suggest that installation may not be extremely easy, and we would appreciate any pointers you can give us.

 

The problems people are having are as follows:

• HG10 bracket bending card during install
  
• Hydro cooler cold plate bending card during install
  
• Unsatisfactory / failing temperatures (suggesting poor mating contact between the GPU and cooler)
  
• Broken standoffs during install.

 

People in the other thread have tried to mount multiple times with varying results.

 

Anything anyone at Corsair can do to assist with these issues (including creating a N980 specific version of the N970 video posted on YouTube) to assist those with troubles would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks,

Matt

[Niche]

I'm one of those users. Standoff broke while lightly tightening the last screw for mounting the H75. Idle temps are 70 degrees Celsius, 30 degrees higher than when I had my reference air cooler. I don't dare try to open a GPU demanding application with this cooling system.

[2002whitegt]

First install I broke a standoff using a H75 on my titan x. Initiated and RMA, got replacement, made sure everything was "snug" installed going in a cross pattern. Idles at 32-33, when gpu usage goes to 100% temperatures reach 86.

 

I've tried getting the water block to sit right on the card, but I guess it's not making square contact.

 

Card also has a slight bend from installing the HG10 bracket.

 

EDIT:

 

Took it apart for a 3rd time, used the intel bracket for the h75, put everything back together making sure that i evenly screwed in the thumbscrews, still getting high temps on full load hitting 81-83. At this point I'm done trying to get this to work. I'm putting the stock cooler and trying to get my money back. What an awful experience.

 

EDIT 2:

I just put the stock cooler back on, everything back to normal. Sending this thing back and looking at other options.

[xixou]

Could you post a picture of a so called standoff ?

[sunthief]

Similiar problem here. Used the HG10 with an H90 and the MSI V1 version of the GTX 980 Ti.

 

Ridiculous bend (like a banana) and temps beyond 80 degrees. Support told me to loosen the screws, did that, temps go up to beyond 90 degrees. Almost killed my card.

 

Tried this and that, loosen that screw, tighten that - all to no avail. As my card started to cause bluescreens I decided to return the HG10 and will now go with the Evga solution.

 

http://s24.postimg.org/wwo9254yd/20151106_163904.jpg

[w1nn1ng1]

First install I broke a standoff using a H75 on my titan x. Initiated and RMA, got replacement, made sure everything was "snug" installed going in a cross pattern. Idles at 32-33, when gpu usage goes to 100% temperatures reach 86.

 

I've tried getting the water block to sit right on the card, but I guess it's not making square contact.

 

Card also has a slight bend from installing the HG10 bracket.

 

EDIT:

 

Took it apart for a 3rd time, used the intel bracket for the h75, put everything back together making sure that i evenly screwed in the thumbscrews, still getting high temps on full load hitting 81-83. At this point I'm done trying to get this to work. I'm putting the stock cooler and trying to get my money back. What an awful experience.

 

EDIT 2:

I just put the stock cooler back on, everything back to normal. Sending this thing back and looking at other options.

 

I'm so defeated now. I get my RMA in today, but I know I'm going to have issues. Even if you get it to line up correctly, it still isn't as good as other options. I knew it was too good to be true. The reason I went this route was because I was attracted to the idea of an H100i GTX cooling my monster 980 TI.

 

My friend purchased the EVGA Hybrid kit for his 980 TI (exact same one I have). I installed it for him and he doesn't see temps about 65 C under intense load where, previously, the card would thermal throttle.

 

If I choose to go back to the Hybrid solution, I'm basically out the cost of an H100i GTX (minus the price I can sell it for used). At this point, I was expecting this thing to far outperform the Hybrid kit from EVGA since Corsair seems to have some of the best AIOs on the market. Guess I was wrong.

[Corsair Dustin]

I'm forwarding all of this information to the product manager. All I can ask is that you stand by in the interim, and that if you're unhappy with the product, you're certainly welcome to return it to us.

[mattlach]

I'm forwarding all of this information to the product manager. All I can ask is that you stand by in the interim, and that if you're unhappy with the product, you're certainly welcome to return it to us.

 

Dustin,

 

Thank you for giving us a heads up.

 

Since posting this, some more folks have chimed in in the other thread that they have been successful.

 

Based on this I can only conclude that either the installation process is more tricky on the HG10 N980 than previous designs (including the N970) or that there is some subtle variation in component heights and locations even among supposed OEM layouts.

 

Judging by other peoples experiences (I have not started mine yet) best practice apears to be as follows:

• 
   
   
  
• Remove thermal pads from back of HG10 and place on components on board directly, before mounting, to make sure they are flush, and not ontop of components they don't need to be ontop of.
   
   
  
• DO NOT tighten the screws that hold the board to the HG10 all the way down. Doing so may result in warping of the board, or breaking of the standoffs. Instead tighten them until loose resistance is met, and rely on the cold plate of the Hydro cooler to firm up the mount.
   
   
  
• Use AMD brackets instead of Intel brackets. People seem to have had more success with these.
   
   
  
• During the install of the cooler, take care to avoid hoses touching the metal HG10 bracket. This may force it out of alignment, result in poor contact and poor temperatures
   
   
  
• When tightening the cooler screws, do so in a diagonal cross pattern, little by little, making sure the screws are tightened down an equal amount on each side. STOP and retry if there is significant warping. Slight warping maybe inevitable, but should be safe.
   
   
  
• Remember: Tighter isn't necessarily better. What we are going for is parallel surfaces in both the X and Y directions. so we want all screws to be equally tight. Sometimes loosening a screw is the answer, not tightening it.
   
   
  
• Be sure to have thermal paste on hand to re-apply, as it may take a few tries to get it right
   
   
  
• If temperatures are unsatisfactory, and the case allows for it, try pulling up a temperature monitoring tool on your screen, and tighten/loosen screws live (while idle, as to not overheat) (taking care to not touch anything)
   
   
  
• Depending on the cooler used, you know you got the mount right if your idle temps are in the high 20's to low 30s Celsius. Once you have achieved this, go for load testing Target should be mid 50's to mid 60's C in load temperature depending on the cooler used and ambient temperature.

 

I will be attempting my install Tuesday or Wednesday when my 2.5" long radiator screws arrive. I will be sure to post back with my experiences as well. Wish me luck!

[anti-duck]

Dustin,

 

Thank you for giving us a heads up.

 

Since posting this, some more folks have chimed in in the other thread that they have been successful.

 

Based on this I can only conclude that either the installation process is more tricky on the HG10 N980 than previous designs (including the N970) or that there is some subtle variation in component heights and locations even among supposed OEM layouts.

 

Judging by other peoples experiences (I have not started mine yet) best practice apears to be as follows:

• 
   
   
  
• Remove thermal pads from back of HG10 and place on components on board directly, before mounting, to make sure they are flush, and not ontop of components they don't need to be ontop of.
   
   
  
• DO NOT tighten the screws that hold the board to the HG10 all the way down. Doing so may result in warping of the board, or breaking of the standoffs. Instead tighten them until loose resistance is met, and rely on the cold plate of the Hydro cooler to firm up the mount.
   
   
  
• Use AMD brackets instead of Intel brackets. People seem to have had more success with these.
   
   
  
• During the install of the cooler, take care to avoid hoses touching the metal HG10 bracket. This may force it out of alignment, result in poor contact and poor temperatures
   
   
  
• When tightening the cooler screws, do so in a diagonal cross pattern, little by little, making sure the screws are tightened down an equal amount on each side. STOP and retry if there is significant warping. Slight warping maybe inevitable, but should be safe.
   
   
  
• Remember: Tighter isn't necessarily better. What we are going for is parallel surfaces in both the X and Y directions. so we want all screws to be equally tight. Sometimes loosening a screw is the answer, not tightening it.
   
   
  
• Be sure to have thermal paste on hand to re-apply, as it may take a few tries to get it right
   
   
  
• If temperatures are unsatisfactory, and the case allows for it, try pulling up a temperature monitoring tool on your screen, and tighten/loosen screws live (while idle, as to not overheat) (taking care to not touch anything)
   
   
  
• Depending on the cooler used, you know you got the mount right if your idle temps are in the high 20's to low 30s Celsius. Once you have achieved this, go for load testing Target should be mid 50's to mid 60's C in load temperature depending on the cooler used and ambient temperature.

 

I will be attempting my install Tuesday or Wednesday when my 2.5" long radiator screws arrive. I will be sure to post back with my experiences as well. Wish me luck!

 

Corsair, hire this guy as a support rep! :p

 

Seriously though Mattlach, are you going to be attempting the installation with the EVGA backplate?

[w1nn1ng1]

I will go through my second attempt tonight. I will update you guys with any details I find. I will also confirm what others have found if that is also the case. Wish me luck!! Thank god I have half a tube of AS5 waiting.

[GearDraxon]

Corsair, hire this guy as a support rep! :p

 

Seriously though Mattlach, are you going to be attempting the installation with the EVGA backplate?

 

In another thread, Dustin said that the backplates aren't compatible with the HG10.

 

From my observation, this appears to be true - the HG10 uses some of the same screw holes as the EVGA backplate, and seeing as how fiddly this install is already...

[mattlach]

Corsair, hire this guy as a support rep! :p

 

Having a background in Mechanical and Industrial Engineering, and currently working in Medical Device Quality Assurance, and having seen many tolerance stack-up type issues over the years, certainly helps :p

 

Seriously though Mattlach, are you going to be attempting the installation with the EVGA backplate?

 

I'm going to play that one by ear as I do it. I WANT to make it work, but it has been suggested that only 5 of the 6 screws fit if you do, and with all of these issues, I'm not sure I want to introduce yet another variable.

 

Once I get the EVGA cooler off, and line everything up and see how it fits together, I plan on assessing what I think the chance of success is and making a decision.

[TheDudeLasse]

Having a background in Mechanical and Industrial Engineering, and currently working in Medical Device Quality Assurance, and having seen many tolerance stack-up type issues over the years, certainly helps :p

 

I'm going to play that one by ear as I do it. I WANT to make it work, but it has been suggested that only 5 of the 6 screws fit if you do, and with all of these issues, I'm not sure I want to introduce yet another variable.

 

Once I get the EVGA cooler off, and line everything up and see how it fits together, I plan on assessing what I think the chance of success is and making a decision.

 

Thanks for the excellent breakdown mattlach. My HG10 N980 will arrive tomorrow and i'll be attempting an install based on your instructions with a reference MSI GTX 980 ti + H80i GT.

 

Let's see how it goes. My HG10 N980 crossed the Atlantic, so if a standoff breaks, I'll be literally screwed.

[mattlach]

Thanks for the excellent breakdown mattlach. My HG10 N980 will arrive tomorrow and i'll be attempting an install based on your instructions with a reference MSI GTX 980 ti + H80i GT.

 

Let's see how it goes. My HG10 N980 crossed the Atlantic, so if a standoff breaks, I'll be literally screwed.

 

If this happens, and returning it across the Atlantic isn't an option, someone in the last couple of pages in the other thread had a work around. They said it was possible to put some sort of long case screw through it and make it work in a pinch.

 

 

Best of luck!

[w1nn1ng1]

Thanks for the excellent breakdown mattlach. My HG10 N980 will arrive tomorrow and i'll be attempting an install based on your instructions with a reference MSI GTX 980 ti + H80i GT.

 

Let's see how it goes. My HG10 N980 crossed the Atlantic, so if a standoff breaks, I'll be literally screwed.

 

The standoff is nothing more than a threaded spacer. If you do break it, you can probably replace it with a longer screw with fine threads (not entirely sure the size) and you can put like a plastic bushing between the bracket and the post.

[anti-duck]

In another thread, Dustin said that the backplates aren't compatible with the HG10.

 

From my observation, this appears to be true - the HG10 uses some of the same screw holes as the EVGA backplate, and seeing as how fiddly this install is already...

 

I already knew that the EVGA backplate can work with the HG10 N980, without any modification whatsoever, I just don't get why it can only be held on with a few screws and I want to know how well it works.

[sebastiannielse]

I checked the threading on the screw on the standoff that is shipped with the h100i. I suspects its the same threading on the standoffs shipped with the HG10.

The threading shipped with h100i GTX, Its standard M3 so you can use any M3 screw of sufficent length and a suitable spacer (like a stack of washers), to fix the problem.

 

Getting the broken piece out of the post can be a tough job if not any piece sticks up so you can use a pair of pliers to unscrew them. If no piece sticks up, you can try use a Sharp pointy object like a needle, to poke up the screw by placing the tip of the needle at a angle, a Little bit out from the center of the broken screw, and carefully pusing the needle in the "unscrew direction", without pushing too hard. Unless the screw piece is deformed, it should unscrew easily since theres no load on the screw when it has snapped.

[w1nn1ng1]

So, I finally got home and tested the new, RMA'd bracket. I have confirmed everyone's suspicions. Basically, this bracket is designed improperly. I will post pictures tomorrow. I haven't tested yet, but, here is what I did:

 

First, I removed the thermal pads from the bracket. I manually placed them on the components that need to be cooled to ensure they weren't touching any of the taller components. I then loosely mounted the bracket only tightening the screws until minimal force was met. I then mounted the cooler using the AMD bracket. What if found was that the pump is not making proper contact with the die. I have loosened and tightened all of the screws on the pump in different orders with no clear results. The biggest problems I've found are

 

A) the thermal pads are too thick and the standoffs are too long. This is what is causing the PCB to bend when the bracket is mounted. The standoffs that the PCB mounts to are too long towards the edges closest to the die. While not long enough on the edges of the card, this is causing a bulge near the center of the bracket where the GPU die rests.

 

B) The standoffs provided that the pump mounts to are also too long. There is a clear gap between the pump and the GPU die. I have pictures where you can actually see where the pump is not touching the die at all. Again, I have tightened and loosened every screw, whether it be the bracket to the PCB or the pump to the bracket, no order of tightening or loosening makes any bit of different.

 

Point blank, the reason this is failing is due to the improper engineering of the bracket where the PCB mounts to it, causing the PCB to bulge. The exact same thing happened with the first bracket I received. I am going to see if I can get it to rest to a more acceptable liking, but I think my efforts are futile.

 

If I can't get the pump to mount properly, I will be requesting a full refund on not only the bracket, but the pump as well since I can't use it. If Corsair doesn't refund the full amount of the pump (given I bought it more than 30 days ago in preparation), it will be the very last Corsair product I ever purchase.

 

The product manager completely dropped the ball. Clearly not enough testing was conducted to make sure these were machined and designed properly. My suspicion is that they pushed this product out early hoping it was good enough, when clearly it isn't.

 

I am one very unhappy customer right now and will be telling everyone I can find on any forum that asks to completely avoid this product until the kinks are completely ironed out

 

#endrant

[sebastiannielse]

Why so negative? All problems can be fixed, so even if the bracket would be less than perfect, its better to take it (when we have waited so long!) and iron out any kinks itself...

Washers can also be used to fix any incorrect standoff lengths.

 

I guess everyone have a Power drill at home? That can be used to drill any missing holes in the bracket. Screws and nuts are very good fasteners when threads are damaged.

 

And incorrect thermal pad thickness? Most computer stores that sell the HG10 also sell cut-yourself-into-size general purpose thermal pads of varying thickness so its easy to fix that problem too.

 

I mean, most mechanical Products like brackets, casings and such can be modified into perfection.

 

Its pretty hard to create a Product from the very beginning, but very easy to fix a less-than-perfect Product.

Compare with food! You might buy food from a resturant or fast-food. It doesn't taste perfect, but it is near perfect. Then you have seasoning, salt and/or pepper, to fix those imperfect things in the taste of food.

 

Same with mechanical Products. Small imperfections and wrinkles can be ironed out by everyone that have some basic Tools and a Little bit of mechanical engiinering skill.

 

 

I mean:

What do you choose?

Wait like 6 months for Corsair to fix the problems, or:

Get the Product now, and then spend a couple of hours to mechanically engiineer the Product into perfection?

 

People spend lots of hours painting computer cases, sawing up holes, inserting plexi glass, adding fan mounts or pump mounts, and in other ways fixing Products that its not completely perfect. So why not with the HG10 N980?

[w1nn1ng1]

Why so negative? All problems can be fixed, so even if the bracket would be less than perfect, its better to take it (when we have waited so long!) and iron out any kinks itself...

Washers can also be used to fix any incorrect standoff lengths.

 

I guess everyone have a Power drill at home? That can be used to drill any missing holes in the bracket. Screws and nuts are very good fasteners when threads are damaged.

 

I mean, most mechanical Products like brackets, casings and such can be modified into perfection.

 

Its pretty hard to create a Product from the very beginning, but very easy to fix a less-than-perfect Product.

Compare with food! You might buy food from a resturant or fast-food. It doesn't taste perfect, but it is near perfect. Then you have seasoning, salt and/or pepper, to fix those imperfect things in the taste of food.

 

Same with mechanical Products. Small imperfections and wrinkles can be ironed out by everyone that have some basic Tools and a Little bit of mechanical engiinering skill.

 

Because EVGA has had a working product for well over 3 months now that works far better than this. Not only that, but they have a shroud to completely cover the pump and blower, making it exhaust the VRM and VRAM heat out the back of the case and not directly into the case as this solution does. I was hoping this would work though, since the idea of an H100i GTX on my GPU was intriguing, but, the EVGA is a far more reliable product and gets you close to the same performance increase as Corsair claims you can with this. Just sad that they botched this product launch so poorly.

 

Also, I don't know about you, but I'm not one to "tinker" when it comes to a $650 video card. I'd rather the tinkering be left to the designers of the product. Otherwise, I would go full custom loop. The purpose of having a bolt-on bracket with a closed loop cooler is to not have to redesign something.

[sebastiannielse]

But the EVGA Product does have a custom pump coldplate making it impossible to use EVGA bracket with a Corsair Link enabled pump (unless you resort to a shim) and that 120mm radiator is way too small, better with a 240mm one. (and switching pump plates is WAY TO RISKY with regards to leaks)

 

I Think a bracket that has its imperfections fixed by a customer will perform a lot of times better than the EVGA solution.

 

I understand your concerns about fear of destroying the video card, but as long as you only tinker with the bracket, not the video card, and being VERY careful with mounting and using precautions, making Everything is right Before testing the card, and taking your time, the Product can be improved way above any expectations.

[anti-duck]

Why so negative? All problems can be fixed, so even if the bracket would be less than perfect, its better to take it (when we have waited so long!) and iron out any kinks itself...

Washers can also be used to fix any incorrect standoff lengths.

 

I guess everyone have a Power drill at home? That can be used to drill any missing holes in the bracket. Screws and nuts are very good fasteners when threads are damaged.

 

And incorrect thermal pad thickness? Most computer stores that sell the HG10 also sell cut-yourself-into-size general purpose thermal pads of varying thickness so its easy to fix that problem too.

 

I mean, most mechanical Products like brackets, casings and such can be modified into perfection.

 

Its pretty hard to create a Product from the very beginning, but very easy to fix a less-than-perfect Product.

Compare with food! You might buy food from a resturant or fast-food. It doesn't taste perfect, but it is near perfect. Then you have seasoning, salt and/or pepper, to fix those imperfect things in the taste of food.

 

Same with mechanical Products. Small imperfections and wrinkles can be ironed out by everyone that have some basic Tools and a Little bit of mechanical engiinering skill.

 

 

I mean:

What do you choose?

Wait like 6 months for Corsair to fix the problems, or:

Get the Product now, and then spend a couple of hours to mechanically engiineer the Product into perfection?

 

People spend lots of hours painting computer cases, sawing up holes, inserting plexi glass, adding fan mounts or pump mounts, and in other ways fixing Products that its not completely perfect. So why not with the HG10 N980?

 

I would guess that most people who want a bracket to attach their CLLC to their video card just want to keep it simple, speaking for myself anyway, I just wanted to bang the bracket on and slap the CLLC in. I specifically purchased a CLLC because of its ease and the bracket follows the same logic. It can probably be sorted out with some modding, but that's why people stick to big brands like Corsair in the first place because it's assumed that their products will be high quality and no modding will be necessary. I could probably get some no name Chinese company to make me a HG10 N980 clone, and it would be just as useless as the actual Corsair HG10 N980 (sorry Corsair), but I would expect it and I would expect to mod it; with Corsair, you just don't.

[GearDraxon]

More specifically - this isn't a case of "mod it so that it works even better than expectations," this is a case of "mod it so that it actually works as intended."

 

I appreciate the modding tips, but the general consensus is that it's just not working as it's supposed to.

[w1nn1ng1]

This is exactly my point. Why go through the hassle of making the product actually work, when I can purchase a $70 Hybrid loop from another vendor that works flawlessly and performs just as good as this solution?

 

So I can't put my pump in Corsair Link...who cares?? I'd rather have a pump and cooler that actually works.

[virdog]

Mine is arriving on Wednesday along with an H75. I guess i'll give it a shot. I'll need to go get myself a tube of thermal paste though, just in case.

 

I honestly don't have much confidence with this thing working given the response on this forum.