mopem Posted November 16, 2004 Share Posted November 16, 2004 Hi, I recently bought a new PC with an Athlon 64 3500+, an Abit A8V-3rd eye motherboard (BIOS v1.5) and 2 x CMX512-3200C2 memory modules. These memory module are much more expensive than any other, but I was willing to pay the extra money because I wanted top peformance with CL2 (they even have a big "CL2" logo printed on them). Imagine my surprise when I saw the very find print in corsair's web site (http://www.corsairmemory.com/corsair/xms.html) saying that these memory modules can work in CL2 mode with Intel platforms, but only CL2.5 with AMD platforms. Since this is how they are advertised by Corsair, they where also advertise as such by the computer store. SO, first of all, I don't understand WHY there is a difference between Intel and AMD platforms. Does this include ALL AMD platforms (Athlon XP, Athlon 64, Athlon 64 socket 939)? If not, then what platform should use CL2.5 and what platforms can "officially" use CL2 (specifically, what about mine)? Also, I think it's very dishonest of Corsair to advertise this memory as being able to work with CL2 when it's not true for a very big part of the market. I feel ripped off, since I could have bought much cheaper memory (alsmot half the price) that provides the same performance. Now I'm not sure I can even take it back to the store, because it works exactly as it should be according to the spec. Regards, Mopem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGCJerry Posted November 16, 2004 Share Posted November 16, 2004 I have a Corsair XMS 512MB PC2700 with the platinum heat spreaders on an XP2700 on a GA-7NNXP and I can say after a year of owning the system, the memory runs fine at CL2. I use 2-3-3-7 and my memory is rock solid at stock voltages/speed. :) I've even ran memtest overnight/throughout day, and it did some 120 passes and the sticks were fine. I'm not sure about the PC3200 sticks though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mopem Posted November 16, 2004 Author Share Posted November 16, 2004 According to the tables in the link I gave, all XMS2700 models are SUPPOSED to work with CL2 (specifically 2-3-3-6) with all platforms, so of course they work fine for you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGCJerry Posted November 16, 2004 Share Posted November 16, 2004 Ahh... I didnt notice that. :s Thanks for pointing it out. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wired Posted November 16, 2004 Share Posted November 16, 2004 SO, first of all, I don't understand WHY there is a difference between Intel and AMD platforms. Does this include ALL AMD platforms (Athlon XP, Athlon 64, Athlon 64 socket 939)? If not, then what platform should use CL2.5 and what platforms can "officially" use CL2 (specifically, what about mine)? Also, I think it's very dishonest of Corsair to advertise this memory as being able to work with CL2 when it's not true for a very big part of the market. I feel ripped off, since I could have bought much cheaper memory (alsmot half the price) that provides the same performance. Now I'm not sure I can even take it back to the store, because it works exactly as it should be according to the spec. The difference is within the main ICs used for that memory. Basically, they found out that they weren't able to definitively say that ALL of the C2s were able to do 2.0 on AMD systems because of some wierd thing in the ICs, so to be safe they rated them @ 2.5 so as not to give out a false claim. Now they MAY be able to do it, but it's not guaranteed. Furthermore, the LLs and XLs CAN hit 2.0. HOW are they being dishonest? You said it yourself, it's right on their website! If anything it's the reseller's fault for not clarifying something that Corsair clearly states. Now granted, I've never seen the packaging on the C2 modules, so I can't say whether or not they state this exception as well, although I think it's a safe bet knowing the guys over there at Corsair. As a side note, there are different versions of the C2s out there, some of which are using the ICs used in the XLs. Granted, they're still not guaranteed @ 2.0 even if they are the same ICs, however they have a better chance of doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsair Employees RAM GUY Posted November 16, 2004 Corsair Employees Share Posted November 16, 2004 I am sorry that you feel that way, but I do not se how posting what we have seen in out testing is miss-leading. Basically, when we were about to release this version, Nforce2 was predominant in the industry and many of the MB's with this chipset and or VIA's socket A chipset would just not run consistently at Cass 2.0. That is the reason the Spec was relaxed, and as Wired posted, you are welcome to try it, as it may very well run at Cass 2.0 on your particular system. But there are just too many MB's out there to try and name them all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mopem Posted November 16, 2004 Author Share Posted November 16, 2004 The difference is within the main ICs used for that memory. What do you mean by that? For Athlon XPs, the memory controller is part of the chipset - Are they all not good enough to work at CL2? Also, some companies (e.g. VIA) produce chipsets for both AMD and Intel CPUs, so their memory controllers should be almost if not completely identical. For Athlon 64s, your claim is even weirder, since the memory controller is part of the CPU and thus it's identical for all motherboards. They need to test only one Athlon 64 to see if it works, and if yes support it officially. Are you saying that the built-in memory controller of the Athlon 64 is incapable of working at CL2? HOW are they being dishonest? You said it yourself, it's right on their website! If anything it's the reseller's fault for not clarifying something that Corsair clearly states. Now granted, I've never seen the packaging on the C2 modules, so I can't say whether or not they state this exception as well, although I think it's a safe bet knowing the guys over there at Corsair. Well, I did look at the packaging and all it says is "CMX512-3200C2", "XMS3202v4.2" and "CL2". There's no mention of any exception regarding AMD platforms, and since before buying the memory I checked the packaging and not the web site, I thought it's supposed to work at CL2 anywhere. When a company neglects to mention such important information in some of its advertisements, I call it being dishonest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wired Posted November 16, 2004 Share Posted November 16, 2004 Wasn't talking about the memory controllers, I was talking about the memory chips on the C2s themselves. That's why I mentioned that the LLs and XLs can hit 2.0, which also negates the problem being the memory controllers. Also, I believe some of the 4.2s use the TCCD ICs, which are used in the XLs. The memory MAY (not guaranteed of course) be able to do 2-2-2-5. Bottom line, have you tried the memory yet? Worst case scenario in trying tighter timings is that you may need to reset the BIOS jumper, can't do any physical damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mopem Posted November 16, 2004 Author Share Posted November 16, 2004 Wasn't talking about the memory controllers, I was talking about the memory chips on the C2s themselves. That's why I mentioned that the LLs and XLs can hit 2.0, which also negates the problem being the memory controllers. If the problem isn't the memory controllers, than why is there a difference between Intel and AMD platforms? RAM Guy said that the problem was originally with the nForce2 chipset, which means that it was the memory controller. Also, I believe some of the 4.2s use the TCCD ICs, which are used in the XLs. The memory MAY (not guaranteed of course) be able to do 2-2-2-5. Is there a way to know for sure if my modules use TCCD ICs like those in the XLs? I know that it's v4.2 and that it's implemented using 32M x 8 DDR SDRAMs, if that helps. If I want to do 2-2-2-5, should I change the default memory voltage of the BIOS (2.65v according to the setup, 2.69v according to the motherboard's sensors)? Bottom line, have you tried the memory yet? Worst case scenario in trying tighter timings is that you may need to reset the BIOS jumper, can't do any physical damage. I did and it worked, but that doesn't mean that it will always work. Even if it works at CL2 99% of the time it's still not good enough. That's why I want to work within the official specification without any overclocking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsair Employees RAM GUY Posted November 17, 2004 Corsair Employees Share Posted November 17, 2004 Bottom line, the official spec for this module on AMD platform would be Cass 2.5-3-3-6, and that would technically be over clocking from the Spec for the IC's we used on this platform. And I explained why the spec was relaxed, Wired does not work directly for Corsair, but he has been invaluable in helping us answer questions. And I think he has addressed your questions. If you still have questions other than about why the spec was changed I will be happy to answer them. And yes there is a way to tall what IC's are used on your modules. Please tell me the complete part# that is on the module. Like: Corsair CMX512-3200C2 XMS3202 V 4.1 0404089 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mopem Posted November 17, 2004 Author Share Posted November 17, 2004 And yes there is a way to tall what IC's are used on your modules. Please tell me the complete part# that is on the module. Like: Corsair CMX512-3200C2 XMS3202 V 4.1 0404089 OK: Corsair CMX512-3200C2 XMS3202v4.2 0439104-0 If I have the newer modules, how do I need to set the voltage for it to work in 2-2-2-5? Do I need to change it from the default 2.65V to use 2-3-3-6? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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