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  #61  
Old 10-18-2007, 11:36 AM
Drezn Drezn is offline
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Originally Posted by lester View Post
Taking the advice of others in the forum, I have set my 800 memory speed to 667 and what was failing quickly before is now running fine. But, should I consider sending in the low bank (A1B1) of sticks under warranty given the results of my swapping sticks between banks?
Have you read through the thread here? It's not the memory at fault, it's a chipset issue that Asus neglects to tell us about. Exchanging the modules for other ones wouldn't help you any I'm afraid...
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  #62  
Old 10-18-2007, 12:30 PM
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Please start you own thread and list the complete system configuration and the exact settings you have set in the MB BIOS. However, with 4 modules you may have to set the memory frequency at DDR667 and setting the NB/MCH Voltage to +.05 Volts would be suggested as well.
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  #63  
Old 10-20-2007, 11:30 AM
lester lester is offline
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Originally Posted by Drezn View Post
Have you read through the thread here? It's not the memory at fault, it's a chipset issue that Asus neglects to tell us about. Exchanging the modules for other ones wouldn't help you any I'm afraid...
Yes, I read all posts on this thread. I'd like to add to the knowledge base that swapping pairs of sticks between the two banks significantly changes the behavior of the error, but I get errors in either case. Yes, lowering frequency to 667 allows all 4 (800s) to work without error.

ASUS does not say 4 800s will not work (or requires bios tweaks to work). On the contrary, they have a long QVL of those 800s by Corsair and others that DO work. Their QVL (qualified vendor list?) has CM2X1024-6400C4 on the list but not the CM2X1024-6400 (which is what I have).

Would someone post and say that they have the CM2X1024-6400C4 sticks and whether or not it works on their ASUS P5K MOBO? Thanks.
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  #64  
Old 10-20-2007, 11:38 AM
lester lester is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RAM GUY View Post
Please start you own thread and list the complete system configuration and the exact settings you have set in the MB BIOS. However, with 4 modules you may have to set the memory frequency at DDR667 and setting the NB/MCH Voltage to +.05 Volts would be suggested as well.
I can do that, but my system looks amazingly similar to the system that the originator of the thread posted. I have the ASUS P5K Mobo, Intel Q6600 processor, 4 1G memory sticks (CM2X1024-6400), a couple SATA II 500G, an ATA 120G, a SATA II DVD, an ATA DVD, GeForce FX 8600 G-card, Linksys 100Tx pci lan card, 700w p/s.

Errors occur with AI set to Auto. Goes away with AI set to N.O.S. and mem speed set to 667. Error occur above 2G or below 2G based upon swapping sticks between matched banks.

Do I need to start a new thread for this?
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  #65  
Old 10-20-2007, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lester View Post
Do I need to start a new thread for this?
Yes, the issue is that the OP might get his own issue lost in his own created thread. You can create a thread of your own and link to this one if you wish. This way both posters can be individually worked with.
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  #66  
Old 10-20-2007, 12:50 PM
Drezn Drezn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lester View Post
ASUS does not say 4 800s will not work (or requires bios tweaks to work). On the contrary, they have a long QVL of those 800s by Corsair and others that DO work. Their QVL (qualified vendor list?) has CM2X1024-6400C4 on the list but not the CM2X1024-6400 (which is what I have).
I seriously doubt having the C4's instead of the regular C5's would change anything. I have the C5's too. This is exactly what I'm objecting to. False advertising, or at the very least a complete misguiding of your customers when you say that your board runs at 800 and even 1067 mhz, without mentioning that it only applies when you don't use all four RAM banks.

It's interesting how you're saying there's a definite change in behavior when you swap the modules around. All my three identical systems have been running completely identical, so I haven't messed around with swapping modules around.
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  #67  
Old 10-20-2007, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Drezn View Post
Without mentioning that it only applies when you don't use all four RAM banks.
I agree...
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  #68  
Old 10-22-2007, 07:04 AM
b1z b1z is offline
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Hi, just interested...
I'm on a 680i based board and got similar issues, as a lot of people do.
This thread also identified the combination of 4 banks populated to be
problematic with today's latest DDR2 memory controllers.
No matter if its Intel or Nvidia based... is there any other alternative?

What bothers me with all these 4 dimm related problems... for some people,
it just works fine out of the box. (At least with actual BIOS releases and later board revisions)
For other people, it only works while running eg. 800Mhz rated dual channel memory
at 667mhz.
For some people, like me, it works even at stock speeds (800Mhz) for a couple of days
and suddenly stability problems occur, like DerekT mentioned.
It's a try it - fix it game..
For others it doesn't work at all.

Most of the posts you read on the net are just plain dumb, so you have to sort out really hard.
(They are more related to software / bad drivers / operating system / wrong overclocking
than hardware faults at all. And who cares if Windows has a BSOD, I don't think you can precisely identify any hardware located defunct with any OS and 50 drivers loaded. Like the memtest86+ people wrote in their docs, there's no way around booting a specific test system for just one specific task. And even then.. you're at the hardware level again with so many variants and layouts and possible errors, you'd have to own a whole lab to work through and test every single component on its own...)

So I don't even know how I can classify most of the people / comments / posts out there.
If you are an Overclocker and like to play around.. then join this game.
But there are others out there who'd like / need to work on such a higher end system and aim for stability AND performance.
Seems like this is not even possible today with the best and even priciest hardware available.
Sort of lost the point here... finding qualified posts with technical background on this topic will cost you some days and at the end is someone realistic who's into this like DerekT.. and just says - forget it.

Best example for this are memory subtimings like trrd, tr, twr, twtr, tref, trd, trfc...
Ask the posters how they got their values and most of them just say its a trial and error game.
I've searched for hours on sites that are trying to reengineer today's bioses / modify them to find out how all the Auto settings are calculated based on the system configuration the BIOS boots up... and came up with some things like trc=tras+trp and trfc=trc+3 and such - all based on the SPD timings read out.
However, this are just starting points.
You can't tell me there are people out there without real technical knowledge that put in some numbers and find a combination out of 30 settings with 10 possible values each and... whatever, this would be like winning the lottery.

So leaving most of the settings on Auto seems to be a more realistic way to get it running since the engineers of the PCB and BIOS should know what they do and the BIOS should be able to react to different configurations by itself.
Example: In a BIOS Changelog they write enhanced memory compatibility.
What changes is eg. the BIOS sets Vdimm to 1,85 if 2 banks are populated and
to 2,1V if 4 banks are populated. At least this is what the normal user can see. I'm sure there are other intern changes to react on specific timing combinations, density and so on.

So the point of this is, if the engineers of a BIOS of a company with >10 years of experience are unable to get a system running stable with 1year old memory and an one year old PCB, I don't think there's a way for the end-user to do it "just by playing around with some settings".
They are into it, they've designed it.
So IMHO the limitations still existant are not related to the board designers anymore (there were so many BIOS versions and revisions), but directly related to chipset limtations. And theres not much the end-user nor the MB maker can do about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drezn View Post
My friend bought and built the exact same system after I got him all tech horny talking about it, and for him it seems to be working without a hitch. I'll try sticking my modules in his machine to see how they perform in memtest86.
This is such a posting giving me some positive outlook, however I'm not sure if I can take it as valid. Did your friend test it with memtest86+ v1.70 for several passes after warm and cold starts?
Did you try sticking your modules in and running memtest on them?
I'd be interested if thats for real or if your friend is just another user who has actually never used more than 1/3 of his memory and then says its working stable..? (Sorry I really don't want to be offensive !)

And even that is not a true indicator of "is it working stable"..

I've even experienced this phenomen by myself!

I had my system running memtest86+ with all 4 banks populated for around 16 hours with no errors at all!
Then I waited around 8 hours and ran it again (cold start) and even then after another night no errors at all.

3 days after this stress test... I suddenly had a kernel oops which doesn't say nothing at first. It could be the buggy Nvidia graphics driver or whatever.
So I've started memtest86+ again and was not yet in the BIOS anymore - guess what? Errors all over the place and I'm still in this situation.

Now after it did run and tested out stable for several days I'm not 100% sure anymore if its just chipset related since initially I did not have this 2 bank * 800mhz limitation. Now it could also be wrong PCB design with a bad component anywhere.

So... after days of reading, I'm not really more into it than I was before.
I'm not the typical gaming end-user, I do have some good knowledge and am an IT professional.
But this is just wicked... not even some experienced friends which are working with this hardware day for day were able to say me whats causing this precisely.
The 20 forum accounts around the world I've just made to find a solution will certainly help feeding my spam filter

Now I'm waiting for Drezn's reply to see if there are lottery-style boards out there...

Doubt it. Seems like the best way is to use 2*2GB, sell the second pair and buy a solid state disk to swap on it... or switch the platform..

Last edited by b1z; 10-22-2007 at 07:12 AM.
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  #69  
Old 10-22-2007, 06:08 PM
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I think maybe you are making a mountain out of a mole hill
Quote:
Originally Posted by RAM GUY View Post
1. Can the Asus board use all memory slots up to 8mb and at 800MHz?
A: Yes but its hit and miss and DDR667 would be suggested with more than two modules installed on most MB's
2. If not what is the maximum memory configuration?
A: See Above!
3. Are most of these problems related to 680i chipset or Asus?
A: NO just a limitation!
4. Do you feel they will be resolved as this chipset and MOBO matures?
A: It's just a chipset/Memory controller limitation.
5. Can 800MHz memory be set to run at 667 and will that help?
A: And what is suggested!
6. Is memory purchased above OK for this MOBO?
A: Yes and will run great just with 4 modules you may need to set the memory frequency at DDR667!
7. Is there another MOBO out here that is SLI ready without these kind of problems?
A: Again it's hit and miss, there is more loading on the system and slowing the memory down is common when the system is fully loaded and nothing new. This has been an issue all along, its just that until recently there were no modules widely available to do it.
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  #70  
Old 10-22-2007, 11:44 PM
Drezn Drezn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b1z View Post
Originally Posted by Drezn
My friend bought and built the exact same system after I got him all tech horny talking about it, and for him it seems to be working without a hitch. I'll try sticking my modules in his machine to see how they perform in memtest86.
I never got to testing it as the whole testing project drowned in my mate moving to his new house. As you say, it's hard to just take his word for it when he says it's running stable... I certainly don't, and for the same reasons you mentioned. It'd be very nice to test it to satisfy my curiosity, but it wouldn't really change anything if his system is indeed stable. I have three machines here that do exactly the same thing, and need exactly the same sort of tweaks to run.

I'm done with the project at this point as it's working fine at DDR2-667 with everything set to auto. I would've liked to see it run at 800, but all the over-volting, resulting wear and heat, and the tweaking required to make it run stable, simply isn't worth the small boost (if any) in performance. These are machines I've build for three friends free of charge, and there's no point in keeping at it really. My sense of professional pride is a little hurt of course, but I think it's pretty much been proven beyond reasonable doubt that trying to make these three machines perform at the manufacturer specified specs without excessive tweaking, is a battle that can't be won.

If I should get to run Memtest86+ on my mates machine, I'll post the results for sure. It's not very likely that the opportunity will present itself though.
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  #71  
Old 10-23-2007, 05:14 AM
b1z b1z is offline
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I'm glad to hear you're running fine at 667Mhz
I was interested in this thread because I thought about switching to an Intel chipset,
however just saw they have kind of the same limitations as the nvidia ones.

One thing is for sure... if I had it running stable at 667Mhz,
I wouldn't have written my earlier post which is... like Ramguy said 'making a mountain out of a mole hill'.
But just switching to 667Mhz didn't help yet in my case.

So just be happy and don't care about the memtesting,
since like you said... it wouldn't change anything anyways..
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  #72  
Old 10-24-2007, 02:48 AM
Drezn Drezn is offline
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Did you try the 0701 beta patch listed earlier in the post? That's what made all the difference for me, before updating I couldn't run stable at any speed setting. As far as I can tell from using it for a couple of weeks, the only thing that's changed in this one compared to 0603 is the stability.
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  #73  
Old 11-04-2007, 07:42 PM
KingRoLo KingRoLo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RAM GUY View Post
And I would try and set the NB/MCH Voltage to + .05 Volts and set the memory voltage to 2.0 Volts and see if its stable with www.memtest.org.
Thought i'd pop by to give you all an update.

Well, (touch wood) it appears that my system has been stable for 2+ weeks ever since i tried the above NB and MCH voltages. It turns out (for me anyway), that this was key in stopping the very random lockups at the deskop and playing games or doing work. Also upping the RAM voltage + .05.

After a week of stability of the default RAM FSB setting of 1066 i decided, what the hell. So i went for an overclock from 2.4 to 2.8 and its been rock solid still

Then i said what the hell again and went from 2.8 to 3.0 and again it appears to be rock solid after about 4 days. Whereas before at lower than default values of FSB 800 and default voltage it would lockup anywhere between the begining of WinXP and about 1 hour of general low stress usage.

In fact, it appears to be very comfortable. It's almost like it prefers to be overclocked. How very bizarre.

So now i am very gratefull for the advice and support given to me from here and my advice to others is DONT GIVE UP!

to Recap what i think is key, or what worked well for me:

Increases Ram voltage +.05 (or higher)
MCH Voltage +.05 (or higher)
NB Voltage +.05 (or higher)

increases these voltages to the next value after the manufactures default value, then re-test your PC. If it still crashes, increase those bastads again to the next available step and retest again.

Also for the sake of overclocking i turned off all of the Q6600 CPU power saving options and locked down the PCIe bus and disabled the spread spectrum (which stops the normal PCI bus from going higher when you overclock).

also Drezn, how's your system holding up?

Last edited by KingRoLo; 11-04-2007 at 07:44 PM.
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  #74  
Old 11-06-2007, 07:15 AM
Drezn Drezn is offline
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Hey KingRolo, glad to hear it's working out so well for you! Did you update to the beta BIOS as well or is it working without it?

I don't just have one system you know. I had three of the darn things built for my friends, effectively tripling my fun in not being able to make them work. It's been a month now since I declared the project done, and the systems have been playing all sorts of games ever since, as close to 24/7 as you can possibly get. The beta BIOS and a DDR2-667 setting made everything work at auto, a speed I couldn't even make the system run stable at with tweaking and upping the voltages.

So I'm happy to be in the clearn finally
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  #75  
Old 11-08-2007, 08:06 PM
KingRoLo KingRoLo is offline
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Hi Drezn, well to answer your question, to be honest i think the beta bios made little or no difference, because the system was omitting the same lockups at the same settings with both bios's. However after the voltage increases i am all stable now and this is with the beta bios so who knows how my system would react with this same tweaks under the official bios.

cheers.
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