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Old 08-16-2018, 11:07 AM
TheUpriser TheUpriser is offline
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Important iCUE 3.6.109 resetting H150i Sensor

Hello,

Since yesterday I have my H150i installed and setup with iCUE.
There is only one problem. When I restart my computer iCUE resets the selected sensor for the H150i.
So when i restart it sets the sensor back to H150i Pro temp but I want it to read the package of my cpu.
iCue does not reset it for the Commander Pro.

Any suggestions?

With kind regards,

Rick

Last edited by TheUpriser; 08-16-2018 at 11:13 AM.
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  #2  
Old 08-16-2018, 11:23 AM
c-attack c-attack is offline
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I am not sure why you want it to run from package temp. That's not how the cooler works and surely will make your fans overly jumpy. However, are you saying your custom fan curve control variable is resting to the default "H150i Pro CPU Coolant Temp"?

Just the "sensor" box? Or does the entire fan curve reset to one of the default presets (Quiet, Balanced, Extreme)?
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Old 08-16-2018, 11:26 AM
TheUpriser TheUpriser is offline
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Yup it actually resets the box, it does not reset to one of the default presets.

Maybe I can use the default H150i pro temp. But I do not know what the range of the cooler is and on when temps it drives up the fans. Any information about that? could not find it when searching google.
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Old 08-16-2018, 11:33 AM
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OK, I confirmed it does this for me as well by quitting iCUE and the corresponding services. Not really something I have thought about before, but likely tied to cutting the connection between cooler and motherboard. The cooler cannot run from CPU package or or any other motherboard derived value without a connection to the board (application + service running, USB connected). When you restart or kill the app/service, you have severed the connection and the cooler resorts back to its natural means of control -- the coolant temperature. The same would happen from any other motherboard derived value like GPU temp, single cores, drive temps, etc., although I don't know why anyone would run the cooler from those variables. Frankly, using CPU package temp isn't much different. Seems kind of wasteful to get a 360mm radiator that can sit all day with low fan speeds and shed the heat, only to then force the fans to jump up and down with your Haswell. Regardless, if you want to use package temp for the cooler, you may need to reset it each time you boot up.
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Old 08-16-2018, 11:50 AM
TheUpriser TheUpriser is offline
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Seems logical!

But maybe build in a option to resume using cpu package when the software starts?!

The reason is I have a push pull setup right now and I like to have the fans at the same speed. I'm using the LL120 (3 in front) with the MM120 (3 at the back) in combination. but the MM's are on the cooler itself. and the 3 LL's in the front are on the commander pro. The rest of the slots on the Commander pro are filled with LL's on the back and top. So I have to use the MM's on the cooler itself

Last edited by TheUpriser; 08-16-2018 at 12:21 PM. Reason: me being dumb
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Old 08-16-2018, 12:16 PM
c-attack c-attack is offline
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If you put the fans on the motherboard headers, they will run with whatever settings are available in your BIOS. Certainly CPU temp is going to be on that list. Just remember fan speed is not even close to being the limiting factor on a 360mm cooler, so keep it moderate.

I am still not sure why you want this way, but I won't push. Final thought is if the cooler happens to be installed as intake on the front panel, a slow to moderate steady speed (like from coolant temp) may be more useful for overall case air exchange rate than a dynamic response. Slow and steady works really well with large surface area radiators like the H150i. Less impactful on other components if top mounted exhaust, but still the slow and steady rule applies.
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Old 08-16-2018, 12:29 PM
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Okay, thanks for your advice :) I'll take this and put the fans on slow and steady then.
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Old 08-19-2018, 03:53 PM
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I have the same issue with H150i pro. I want the sensor to read cpu package cos I am at 5Ghz, I don't want to read the h150i pro temp. As far as I am concerned, this is not an addressable issue and iCue just works that way. But my cpu temps are much higher if I , for some reason, forget to put it read cpu package, especially while gaming. There's absolutely no reason for the cooler to read the cooler's temps. If I need a quiet operation while idling, I turn it to "zero rpm", and have the pump to Quiet mode.
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Old 08-19-2018, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommybertsen View Post
I have the same issue with H150i pro. I want the sensor to read cpu package cos I am at 5Ghz, I don't want to read the h150i pro temp. As far as I am concerned, this is not an addressable issue and iCue just works that way. But my cpu temps are much higher if I , for some reason, forget to put it read cpu package, especially while gaming. There's absolutely no reason for the cooler to read the cooler's temps. If I need a quiet operation while idling, I turn it to "zero rpm", and have the pump to Quiet mode.

You have no idea how CPU cooling works. If you want to make yourself miserable trying to balance the above arrangement, go ahead, but it is both inefficient and unnecessary on both counts.
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Old 08-19-2018, 04:29 PM
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Hello, and good afternoon. I certainly have "an idea" of how cpu cooling works. Cpu coolers, cool cpus :p

Would you like to tell me though? I tell you what I see, I don't make myself "miserable" or anything like this.
If sensor reads "h150i pro" , with whatever curve, my cpu temps are 15+ degrees higher.
If I set it for cpu package, with a slight "aggressive" fan curve I have better temps. Just like you said above "slow and steady", and somewhat more aggresive while gaming.

Would you like to explain what I do wrong, rather than insulting me?
Thanx.

PS: I read a big (I mean REALLY big) review for this cooler at a greek forum from a guy who is a real expert on that matter (not only how cooling works, but many more things :) ). He had to report the TS's issue as well, in his review. ;) But I will insist and I will try to learn more things from you. Thanx in advance
PS2: I have H150i pro at the top of my chassis.
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  #11  
Old 08-19-2018, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommybertsen View Post
Hello, and good afternoon. I certainly have "an idea" of how cpu cooling works. Cpu coolers, cool cpus :p

Would you like to tell me though? I tell you what I see, I don't make myself "miserable" or anything like this.
If sensor reads "h150i pro" , with whatever curve, my cpu temps are 15+ degrees higher.
If I set it for cpu package, with a slight "aggressive" fan curve I have better temps. Just like you said above "slow and steady", and somewhat more aggresive while gaming.

Would you like to explain what I do wrong, rather than insulting me?
Thanx.

PS: I read a big (I mean REALLY big) review for this cooler at a greek forum from a guy who is a real expert on that matter (not only how cooling works, but many more things :) ). He had to report the TS's issue as well, in his review. ;) But I will insist and I will try to learn more things from you. Thanx in advance
PS2: I have H150i pro at the top of my chassis.
Questions for you:

When the fans are spinning on the radiator and blowing air through the radiator, what is it that those fans are actually cooling?

In a liquid cooling setup, what is it that actually removes heat from the CPU?

And how is the heat from the CPU transferred outside the case in a liquid cooling setup?
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  #12  
Old 08-19-2018, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommybertsen View Post
There's absolutely no reason for the cooler to read the cooler's temps
Of course there is. This what the fans do - remove heat from the coolant stream. They do not have a direct effect on the CPU.

CPU pins + voltage = heat -> transferred through CPU material to TIM to cold plate (water, air tower, doesn't matter). This is a conductive path and no setting on any cooler affects this part of the process. If we could influence things this way, then we could all run 2.20 Vcore and get a ton of really big fans. But since the heat must pass through the CPU before it can be removed by any cooler, you can't endlessly add voltage and compensate with a bigger radiator, more fan speed, or any of the traditional methods. This is also why extreme sport overclockers resort to liquid nitrogen. Since they can't make the heat leave any faster, the only other thing to do is make the original CPU that much colder so it won't melt.

The cooler takes the second stage of the process. Once the heat is in the coolant stream (or air pipes) you need to move it somewhere else. That conductive path through the cold plate is a two way street and heat goes both directions. If you don't get rid of it, then you are applying a penalty to the CPU. With liquid cooling it is easy to see -- the coolant temp (H150i Temp for you). If your coolant temperature is 30C, then the lowest possible CPU temp you can have at zero voltage is 30C. You can gauge the effectiveness of the cooler by the change in coolant temp during use. If you start at 30C liquid temp and it increases to 35C, then 5C is the greatest amount you can reduce the CPU temperature with any size radiator and any fan speed. Nothing is ever 100% efficient, so getting back to a zero delta is exceptionally difficult, but that is the general principle.

Since we are running the same CPU, I have a fairly good idea of how much heat it produces. On a slightly small 280mm H115i Pro, my coolant delta typically ranges from 3-5C. With fan speed in the 600-800 range. At worst, you only have 5C of coolant change, so it is impossible for you to have a 15C difference in CPU temperature by doing anything with the fans, other than turning them off completely. Make sure you are looking carefully at starting coolant temp and end coolant. Also be aware of the effect GPU heat has on the rest of the case. Raise the internal temperature +5C and everything in the case goes up 5C. That includes coolant and CPU temp, but that type of heat addition can only be addressed by lowering the case temperature.

If you want to use zero fan mode at the desktop, that's up to you, but it is more a pain to toggle on and off that it's worth. Also, there actually is some difference in idle temperature between zero fan speed and something extremely slow like 400-500 rpm. Most people are better off leaving the fans low than needing to remember to take them out of zero fan mode. This is largely inconsequential since it won't negatively affect your use, until you forget to click them back on one time when doing something heavy. It will click back on at 40C coolant temperature, but I prefer not to let things get out of control before trying to cool them back down.

Last edited by c-attack; 08-19-2018 at 06:41 PM.
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Old 08-20-2018, 12:21 PM
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@c-attack
Thanx really for explaining all the above (especially this about how AIO responds to what I do with iCUE and my custom curves). I should know about that and now you have enlightened me. What is the curve you suggest if I leave the sensor to H150i pro temp ?
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Old 08-20-2018, 12:52 PM
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I think most people should set it based on noise. At idle, it can be as low as you like. I do think you are better off letting the fans spin slow as opposed to stopped. The stop/start may be distracting and there is definitely a difference between zero flow and low flow. Easy enough to test for yourself, but since you have to actively engage and disengage the mode, that removes some of the appeal.

For load, again set it to a comfortable noise level. If you think it is loud, turn it down. Giving up 1-2C in CPU temp for a noticeable reduction in noise is a good trade. The other thing you can do is run a a few tests you see when and if fan speed makes a difference.

Run a CPU only stress test for 10-15 minutes. Pick something normal like Intel XTU, AIDA64, OCCT, whatever. Just stay away from Prime95 and IBT unless you have set your BIOS for this kind of synthetic testing. Those may bring out a lot of extra Vcore on loose settings.

1) Run 1 - put the fans at maximum. Record the starting/ending coolant temp after 15 min.

2) Run 2 - Pick something slow - 750 rpm? 800? Doesn't matter. Like what you would want when on the desktop doing quiet work. Start/End coolant temp.

3) Run 3 - Pick a speed right in the middle of the first two, probably around 1250-1400 rpm. This is generally where 120's start to get loud and you can push it up or down based on your preference. Start/End coolant temp.

You won't want to do these all back to back since the heat tends to accumulate and make the later tests seem worse, but when you have time. So how did they come out? This should give you a basic idea of what different fans speeds will do and what you really lose with slower speeds. If 1600 rpm is 3C cooler than 1200 rpm, then the difference in average CPU temp will be 3C as well.

Now, the big monkey wrench in all of this is environment or room temperature. Obviously when your room temp is 28C, everything in the case will be 10C warmer than if the room was 18C. Not much you can do about this, but it often has a larger effect on the coolant temp than the actual load. Most likely you will want to use a different fan curve for May to October than the one you use in the cooler months. While the above suggestion is an experiment, the fast way to get set-up is the boot up the PC with low fan speeds and see where the H150i Temp stops. For most people, it is around +3-7C above their room temperature. Right now my room temp is 23.6C and the coolant has been hovering around 26.5C with very quiet 550 rpm (140mm) fan speeds. So 26C is my baseline. I could blast the fans at maximum at decrease it by another 1C, but that would be a bit pointless. I know in the afternoons my room is going to get warmer and sun comes round to this side and my coolant temp will climb up to about 29C. So, 28-29C becomes my low point on the curve and I set comfortable, quiet fan speeds up to that point.

Now go play a game or do something you would normally do with the PC (not stress testing unless that is what you like to do). Play an hour or any other normal length of time and check the coolant temp. What is it now? This number can be higher than the max load stress tests because it represents not only the CPU waste heat, but the change in the internal case temperature from the GPU heat. Just like the room, there is nothing you can really do about the internal case temps and this will cause the fans to run faster. However, since you still can't reduce coolant temp below case temp, just set the fans to an acceptable speed that you can live with while gaming. You may need to fiddle with this point as different loads create differing amounts of heat, but the idea is to make a speed that is not annoying. Then make a final lift to the curve 3-4C past your normal peak. If your cooler never goes above 38C, make 42-43C the 100% line. This way is things are not normal, you will hear it before you have to look for it.

All of this definitely requires some adjustments. It wasn't that long ago that CPU temp was still a somewhat reasonable option for control. However, with these last several CPUs from Intel, they are tuned to be very responsive to even nominal tasks. This 8700K will often give me 4 cores at max frequency when I open a folder and all 6 for any program. Having to listen to the fans rev up and down when you open a new browser tab is torture. The good news is you have enough cooler for your CPU that you can pretty much let the fans do whatever you want and you can't get into the trouble. Now, that is not to say a non-delidded CPU will not be hot at 5.0GHz, but you can't reduce that part of it through fan speed. I am afraid that has to come with a change to CPU itself and the 20-30C drop you get from delidding makes most other cooling adjustments trivial.
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Old 08-21-2018, 01:20 PM
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I did all the tests and I found the curve I want :) Thanx for the advice man! You are right about the temps of my room. Coolant temp was max 41.5c with 750rpm fans , and 36.5 with max. With something like 1100-1200 rpm, cooler stays between 30.2 and 30.7c :)


My use is All around with my PC , and gaming of course , while I can. :) I played a cpu intensive game to test it out (that's my best "stress test" for my PC ), AC Origins. The results are as you would expect :) Just about Coolant temp was about 41.6c , but the CPU temps where as before. Not more than 75c while playing the game. GPU was at about 63c.
*I play at 2K resolution

Delidding my CPU is not (yet) an option. I will just drop to 4.8Ghz if I see that something is not ok, but I think I am ok like this, and you were right about the cooler's temp instead of cpu package temp!
I could here the fans going up and down while doing some things as well. Now I do not. :)

Thanx again!
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