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-   -   Fan reports 0 after moving to a new case (https://forum.corsair.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187161)

Yanta 04-29-2019 09:30 AM

Fan reports 0 after moving to a new case
 
I can't seem to catch a break.

I ripped out all my Commander Pro's and went back to motherboard controlled fans, only to find on the MSI XPower Gaming AC motherboards the EXS_FANx headers to not respond to temp changes. Whether it is a faulty motherboard I don't know but two of them are doing the same thing. So had to go back to Commander Pro's with Windows hanging every time PC is woken from sleep.

I purchased a new case. Mapped the fan placements on each of the CPros and moved everything to the new case. Connections in the new case are 100% identical to the old case.

Yet, CorsairLink now reports the CPU fan speed as ZERO.

I'm at my wits end with this stuff. I just want a system that works, cools and does what's expected of it. If it's not one thing it's another.

Operationally, everything seems to be behaving as it should. Fans speeds for case fans are showing and responding to temp changes. The thermal sensors are reporting temps. CPU fans respond to temp changes, but speed is shown as 0.

I replaced the USB Cable.
I swapped the fans on the pump headers.
I swapped C/Pro connections
I tried different motherboard USB ports.
I reset my BIOS, Upgraded and downgraded it. I made sure the CPU and pump fans were set to PWM and also tried Auto.
I put the pump connector on the CPU_FAN header but C/Link refuses to detect the H115i at all if I do that.
I upgraded and downgraded C/Link. I installed C/Link from a clean windows that had never had C/Link on it.

This is driving me nuts. Why would moving parts to a new case stop C/Link from reporting the fan speed?

c-attack 04-29-2019 06:44 PM

I am not sure I quite understand how things are set up or whether the zero rpm reading is true or an error. Is the CPU Fan = 0 just in Link or in the BIOS as well?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanta (Post 1002942)
I put the pump connector on the CPU_FAN header but C/Link refuses to detect the H115i at all if I do that.

You still have the older Asetek H115i (Hexagonal block), correct? It's SATA powered and the header to motherboard CPU fan should give you half the pump speed. It is not a control header in that instance. However, it should have no bearing on the H115i being detected in Link as a device. That's on the USB end and there should be a separate tab for it in Link. Removing the H115i motherboard lead would cause the CPU fan header to read zero.

What happens if you connect a regular fan to CPU_FAN? Do you get BIOS and/or C-Link readings for the header?

Yanta 04-29-2019 10:24 PM

Yes, this is NOT the pro version of the cooler. It's the original H115i (CW-9060027-WW).

The USB plug from CPro 1 goes to the motherboard. The USB plug in CPro 2 goes to the first USB plug on CPro 1. The H115i pump plugs into USB port 2 on CPro 1. The HX1200i USB cable is plugged into USB port 1 on CPro 2.

The single wire plug on the H115i Goes to the PUMP_FAN header on the motherboard.

In this scenario the BIOS shows the pump speed as 950 RPM, half the pump speed. The CPU_FAN of course shows as 0.

The SATA power cable is definitely plugged in.

If I move the single wire connector from PUMP_FAN to CPU_FAN the H115i still show the fan speed as 0. If I revert to a clean pre-clink image and reinstall it will not show the H115i at all.

I'll do the regular fan test and get back to you.

Yanta 04-29-2019 10:50 PM

If I plug a regular fan into CPU_FAN the BIOS Shows its speed. CLink shows 0
If I plug a regular fan into PUMP_FAN the BIOS shows its speed. CLink shows 0
If I plug the pump header into CPU_FAN the BIOS shows it's speed. CLink shows 0
I then restored from a Pre-CLink image, installed 4.9.9.3 with the pump connected to CPU_FAN and it does not show the H115i at all.

Bearing in mind, in the old case this all worked perfectly.

I then ran h264 and I can see and hear the rad fans speed up. CLink remains on 0 RPM

[IMG]https://i.ibb.co/r5VYffd/Untitled.png[/IMG]

c-attack 04-30-2019 07:37 AM

Oh, I see the issue in the picture now. It's not the CPU_Fan header that is the problem. Link is showing a 0 RPM for the H115i fans. The H115i is detected.

A few possibilities:

1) You are not using the H115i fan splitter and connected the radiator fans to one of the Commander Pro controllers or to the motherboard. The fan controller is empty and thus reads zero. You cannot read fan speed from the internal fan controller through the BIOS. This is normal and expected.

2) Hardware problem - The fans are connected to the H115i splitter, but still no speed reading. Most often this is a bad fan speed wire. Try swapping the two fan connections. Only one of them is the control fan and the other takes the same speed signal. If still nothing, try another 4 pin PWM fan on the 4 pin slot and see if it registers. It seems like the fans are running, so a blown internal fan controller seems out.

3) Software glitch - This would be a strange one and I don't remember anything ever this specific, but then these things are often strange. It seems like you have already tried reinstalling the software. We could try installing iCUE on a temporary basis. It won't overwrite Link. It would overwrite CUE2 for keyboards/mice. I think this is the least likely possibility and would not spend any time messing with the software until we rule out the two factors above. It also could be the most difficult to diagnose.

Yanta 04-30-2019 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by c-attack (Post 1003051)
1) You are not using the H115i fan splitter and connected the radiator fans to one of the Commander Pro controllers or to the motherboard. The fan controller is empty and thus reads zero. You cannot read fan speed from the internal fan controller through the BIOS. This is normal and expected.

The fans are most certainly connected to the fan splitter. The fans are not connected to the CPro or the motherboard.

Quote:

Originally Posted by c-attack (Post 1003051)
2) Hardware problem - The fans are connected to the H115i splitter, but still no speed reading. Most often this is a bad fan speed wire. Try swapping the two fan connections. Only one of them is the control fan and the other takes the same speed signal. If still nothing, try another 4 pin PWM fan on the 4 pin slot and see if it registers. It seems like the fans are running, so a blown internal fan controller seems out.

I had the same thought with the wire - so I replaced both fans (I have lots of spares). Same result.

"I swapped the fans on the pump headers." from the OP.. I should have said "splitter" not pump headers.

The fans are definitely running, and speed up and slow down as temps change

Quote:

Originally Posted by c-attack (Post 1003051)
3) Software glitch - This would be a strange one and I don't remember anything ever this specific, but then these things are often strange. It seems like you have already tried reinstalling the software. We could try installing iCUE on a temporary basis. It won't overwrite Link. It would overwrite CUE2 for keyboards/mice. I think this is the least likely possibility and would not spend any time messing with the software until we rule out the two factors above. It also could be the most difficult to diagnose.

I'm not fond of iCue. It's 900mb... that's massive... It uses 6% ave CPU all the time. And it runs 4 processes. CLink runs two processes uses < 1% ave CPU and takes up 45mb. Much more efficient.

Lol, and up until now, it has worked for me on 10 PCs extremely well. iCue on the other hand is like CAM..

What irritates me is that all I did was move parts to a new case. This is issue did not exist in the old case, and we certainly can't blame the case. I was so damned meticulous with the move I wrote down where every cable was plugged in and duplicated it in the new case.

Anyway, just for the sake of the test, I restored my Clink free image and installed iCue. As you can see, it too does not report the fans speeds.

https://i.ibb.co/BLGVFKc/icue.png

c-attack 04-30-2019 09:11 AM

iCUE is the merger of two programs, so it's not surprising it has more processes. It also needed to make some changes to be more compatible with newer hardware that required them. However, I won't push that and it was intended as a diagnostic tool rather than persuasion to switch. It doesn't make a difference, so we can move off that anyway.

So it does not seem like software. The usual "bad fan wire/connector" does not seem to be in play. That would seem to bring us back around to #2 and this may be a hardware issue. The best guess I have is something happened to the Tach wire on PWM fan controller wire for the H115i. The 12v, ground, and PWM wire are still doing their thing and the fan moves and changes speed, but that speed is not being reported along the Tach wire. I am certainly open to other opinions, but that is the best guess I have based on the above. Probably not what you wanted to hear and I remember our previous discussion about the H115i.

One potential short term fix is to move the fans over to any empty headers on the Commander Pro. From there, you can still establish a connection to the device and your curves will run from coolant temperature. The downside is if Link is not running (or during boot/wake), the fans won't be able to read the data and that usually results in a short term fan blast. There is a workaround for this as well and one I used to run when on Link. Take one of the temp probes from the C-Pro where you have connected the fans and run it to the exhaust side of the H115i radiator. Your exhaust air temp will be just about the same as coolant temp, usually at a consistent -1 to -2 offset. This will allow you effective "coolant temp" based control but it will also maintain constant contact since the temp probe data is native to the Commander Pro.

If your C-Pro is full up on fans, it is likely you can double up (never triple) on one of the headers and we can run through a total current assessment to make sure you're OK on the total and per header (1.0A) max.


** I cannot remember if the H115i "splitter" can be disconnected or is permanent. If it can be swapped out, then I think Corsair will send you a new one through the Support Ticket System. I would still consider the C-Pro control option in the interim.

Yanta 04-30-2019 10:03 AM

In no particular order
No, the splitter is permanent.

I have two fan headers free.

I understand re iCue, and I did use it as a diagnostic tool. One day I'm going to have to switch, but I'm hoping that will be far off and the bugs fixed before then. It's really annoying listening to the device connect/disconnect sound every 10 minutes or so. It also results in a fan blast every cold boot and restart. I think I documented the bugs on another post, none of which seem to have been fixed yet, but I think the post was only a month ago.

I'm usually careful, but that doesn't mean accidents don't happen. It's getting late now, so I'll pick this up again in the morning. I'll check out the wires with a magnifying glass and see if I can see any damage.

I don't remember our previous conversations, and I'm not going to go over past posts. I do recall being really grumpy that I've had so many of these coolers fail on me. They are usually rattling pumps though.

Of course, another option is buy another cooler. It will cost me $120 to send this one back if replacing it solves the problem, which I'm obviously not going to do. A new one is $160. Almost as much to send one back as to buy a new one.

Ughh! I don't need to buy a new cooler to prove this one is faulty... I have 10 Corsair coolers. I can grab one of the 240mm coolers and test on this PC. That should be enough to prove if this one is faulty, yes?

c-attack 04-30-2019 05:09 PM

No, you don't need to buy another cooler to prove there is an issue on this one. The radiator fans should register in the display. They are spinning and being controlled. I think we have narrowed it down to a logical working premise. You could make another warranty claim, but I suspect you are sick of that. I would try using the T-sensor from the Commander Pro to the radiator exhaust side to regain meaningful control and statistics. You don't have to tape it in the center of the radiator. Exhaust air temp with be pretty much the same, except on the extreme edge.

Yanta 04-30-2019 08:57 PM

Got it.

It's a dodgy fan splitter cable. If I jiggle it and move it around I can occasionally get the speeds to show. Let it go and it stops. Couldn't get a position that works all the time without me holding it.

This cable is not serviceable.

I plugged the fans into the CPro with a temp sensor on top of the radiator as you suggested, but I cannot get rid of the fan blast, which is quite irritating.

Other than cutting off the splitter cable from another H115i I dumped in January because of a faulty pump, and soldering the cables together, or pulling the pump apart, I'm looking at yet another cooler.

You're right about the RMA. I've had so many Corsair coolers fail it's become a nightmare process. But, I'm more sick of throwing away my money. If there was another brand that had software control with fan controllers like the CPro I'd probably go that way. As there is not (And no, Kraken is not an option because of CAM), I'm locked into Corsair whether I like it or not.

c-attack 04-30-2019 09:33 PM

You could try making your own connector if you are decent with wiring.

For the now C-Pro connected radiator fans, make sure the “sensor” is set to “Commander Pro Temp # 1-4”.

The last time when you were dealing with the rattles, my suggestion was to consider the model that replaced yours — the H115i Pro. I need one hand to count the number of complaints for it the first 18 months. You are into two hands for just your issues alone. I will not miss your cooler when they are all gone. Eventually you will want to get off that model. For now, I think the t-sensor method works just fine and I ran this way long term for multiple radiators.

Yanta 04-30-2019 09:42 PM

I just found a Pro model on special for $149 (CW-9060032-WW). Normal retail price is typically $209. The platinum version is $229 - $249.

The one I have is the CW-9060027-WW (The non pro).

The misunderstanding we had last time was that the Pro was the RGB with the colored fans with really bad performance. And I'm just not into bling and flash. Especially not at the expense of performance.
I since see that there are now two Pro models (9060032 and 9060038).

I have fixed this one with some pliers. The constant plugging and unplugging must have pushed the pins far enough out to create a poor connection. I've pulled the pins through the 4 pin connector and using some force when reconnecting the fans managed to get a solid connection.

I'm going to go get the Pro one per your advice, and sell this one while it still works. I might not get much for it, but it's better than the RMA process.

I'm flattered that you're keeping track of how many issues I've had with these coolers :)

c-attack 04-30-2019 10:25 PM

9060032 is the H115i Pro. The pump ring is RGB, but fairly simple. Fans are standard non-rgb ML140s. That is the one.

9060038 is the Platinum. I do not recommend that for you at this time. It has a few outstanding issues that are likely to be frustrating. You are paying for more rgb capability and an internal rgb controller. You don’t need this and already have it in the Commander Pro. The only thing that makes it more “high performance” is the 2000 rpm fans vs 1200 on the Pro. However, that only matters if you are willing to run them that fast. I benchmark my HEDT platforms at 1300 on a 280mm and limit my open loop 140 fans to 1100 rpm. You likely don’t need anything more than that, but if so it’s only a quick fan change away.

Yanta 04-30-2019 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by c-attack (Post 1003158)
9060032 is the H115i Pro. The pump ring is RGB, but fairly simple. Fans are standard non-rgb ML140s. That is the one.

9060038 is the Platinum. I do not recommend that for you at this time. It has a few outstanding issues that are likely to be frustrating. You are paying for more rgb capability and an internal rgb controller. You don’t need this and already have it in the Commander Pro. The only thing that makes it more “high performance” is the 2000 rpm fans vs 1200 on the Pro. However, that only matters if you are willing to run them that fast. I benchmark my HEDT platforms at 1300 on a 280mm and limit my open loop 140 fans to 1100 rpm. You likely don’t need anything more than that, but if so it’s only a quick fan change away.

Yep. Got the right one then.

I never use stock fans. I have the Noctua iPPC 2000 RPM PWM fans. Much higher static pressure and air flow. I don't run the fans past 1500 RPM

https://noctua.at/en/nf-a14-industrialppc-2000-pwm

vs 55cfm and 1.27 mmH2O for the stock fans

No competition.

Yanta 05-01-2019 01:21 AM

Well, I've got the H115i Pro connected. Took a few goes to get it to detect the cooler, but got there in the end.

The maximum temp for the CPU Package is 60C. That's very low.

c-attack 05-01-2019 06:09 AM

Good, I am glad that’s sorted. In regard to the fans, it is a competition if you adjust the peak value numbers down to 1200 rpm or wherever you normally run. Most 140mm fans have P-Q curves linear enough to estimate effective airflow or static pressure at rpm X. The numbers are substantially similar at like speeds, except of course the ML “Quiet” that come with the Pro series are capped at 1200 rpm, thus the reference to “willing to run them faster”, which you do. I’ve had both the A14i and original 2000 rpm ML140 Pro fans for years and never found a performance difference, but did prefer one or the other in certain builds for aesthetic reasons. One thing about the ML bearing is it tends to make the fan a bit quieter in the middle rpm zone (700-1100 rpm for a 140mm) in comparison to SSO2 or other common FDB/rifle bearings. Since that is the range where most people spend the bulk of their time, you can see why they include them in this form and with the lower speed cap. I am not sure if you can remember what your stock H115i fans sound like, but I think this was a good direction to go for most people. Typically those that need high rpm fans already have them and have a definite preference on which ones they use.

The Pro series was also the first Corsair cooler with three fan speeds and specifically the Quiet 1100 rpm pump mode. Obviously there was a clear intent to make a quieter total package in comparison to the predecessor. In regard to the Quiet pump speed, it’s fine for sitting on the desktop doing light work, but you have too much CPU for that under load. Normally you don’t get much difference in coolant temp between pump speeds. The total length is short and the fluid resistance low in AIO packages. However, 1100 appears to be low enough to cause a relatively large drop in flow rate and you will notice the temp differences. Just FYI.

Yanta 05-01-2019 09:32 AM

Say what? Almost all of that went straight over the top of my head.

I remember the SP140 fans - Loud in comparison to the Noctua's I'm using. IIRC I couldn't set them below 820 RPM. The Noctua's will go as low as 300 RPM.

I set my CPU fans to 1500 RPM at 75c. The curve is not linear. More like the bottom right side of a circle. At 20c the speed was set so the fan speeds run about 600rpm. I currently have them running around 575. Pretty quiet. I use them because the air flow and static pressure are very high, and they are quieter. At 1500RPM IIRC they are quieter than the SL140's. I forget what the SP140 max speeds were

Case fans: The 3 x P14S fans run faster @ 550-600 RPM because they are exhaust fans. The 7 S12B fans are intake and run at 400 minimum at 20c

So, with what you said above - are you saying I should not limit my CPU fans lower than their maximum values? I'm not following what you said.

I did notice that the CPU fan curve can't be set more than 60c which is insanely low when the curve is based on the CPU Package.

On Quiet the pump runs @ 1020 RPM. Balanced @ 2040 and Performance @ 2760 which is audible. I have it set at balanced.

c-attack 05-01-2019 07:06 PM

Yeah, the SP140L are loud, I hate them, and thus this was likely part of the rationale to moving to a more civilized fan in the ML-Quiet. I would have put the A14i on the first day for your old H115i and in fact, that is exactly what I did.

Obviously airflow is dependent on fan speed, so a 140mm fan that moves 80 cfm at 2000 rpm will only move an estimated 40 cfm at 1000. In reality, the P-Q curve is not perfectly linear, but that is the best we can do without one. The same holds true for static pressure. Static pressure is the amount of negative pressure required to reduce a fan to a speed of zero. So the higher the RPM, the higher the static pressure. This does not directly equate into improved radiator performance. That little 40x40 fan that runs at 5000 rpm will have a staggering pressure rating, but still move a minuscule 11 cfm. Try that on your radiator. The ML140 Pro (2000 rpm max) I have in my hand right now rates at 100 cfm and 3.0 mm H20 at 2000 rpm. That is competitive with the like speed A14 industrial. The point I was making about is the ML140 Quiet is the same blade and frame and will move the same amount of air as the ML140 Pro when they are both at the same speed. The only limitation is the 1200 max speed and thus the remark about only needing it if you use it. At 700-900 rpm, all three are going be indistinguishable. At any rate, this was not a persuasive argument to switch your fans. Just don't toss the ML140-Quiets like you might the old SP140L. They have value. If you really want to see a ML vs A14i comparison across the RPM band, there are a few floating around the internet.

Yes, that is the general advice I give to others as well. Park the pump on Balanced and be done with it. You will (and should) be able to hear the Extreme 2850 rpm setting. My $200 D5 is certainly audible at 3000 rpm, even with a much more complicated dampening system. For most people, even with 200W+ HEDT CPUs, you won't see a coolant difference of more than 1C between the two higher speeds (2160/2850). You can certainly test that. If you are going to set a 30 minute render and leave the room, it hardly matters and can use it. If you have a lot of mixed use, put on balanced and leave it.

The cooler's fan controller was meant to use coolant temperature (H115i Pro Temp) as the control variable. If your coolant hits 60C, you have issues. In spite of this, Corsair has made CPU temp a control option and probably needs to adjust the graph scale to a more appropriate 80C+ to make reasonable data points. Since they have not, that is yet another reason to use coolant temperature as the control point. Remember, fans the pump speed have no effect on the electrical heat created under the CPU at the pins. The fans and pump do get rid of the waste heat conducted through CPU and cold plate. +1C coolant temp = +1 CPU temp. If the coolant is not going up during whatever you are doing, more fan or pump speed will not make it cooler. There is a definite minimum coolant temp you cannot get under. For most people that is ambient temp + 3-4C or most certainly case temp is you are top mounted.


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