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Old 03-05-2012, 08:14 AM
Xerravon Xerravon is offline
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Default help Overclocking CMZ12GX3M3A2000C10

Hi,

Im new here, Ive been using building computers for a long time (Pre-DOS) but never really seriously overclocked, mainly cause I am not convinced I will see a big difference in performance because of bottlenecks. I would like to play with this a little and learn about some of these settings I have never seen before. One thing, I learned already, I know a lot less than I thought I did :)

Currently I am wanting to see if my CPU will run these memory at 2000Mhz. I tried the XMP settings and my system will boot (about 99% of the time) and run seemingly stable until I run memtest, then I see errors. I am guessing one or more of the voltages need tweaked.

Oh, what got me to mess with this in the first place, when I leave the bios overclock settings on auto my ram runs at base speed but the voltage is set for the DRAM at 1.6V (one of the DRAM voltage settings) where the voltage listed for it by corsair is 1.5V. I changed that right away and get no errors on memtest.

I also noticed the timing options on this MB, well there are a lot more settings than I have ever seen on any MB in the past, and more than listed by Corsair, not sure what to make of this.

any help would be appreciated

Regards,

John
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  #2  
Old 03-05-2012, 02:19 PM
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With your MB and CPU you may have to run those at 1.65v anyway. But for now lets try just adding QPI\VTT (memory controller voltage) and see if that helps you get stable.

Start out with 1.35v ,and you can safely go to about 1.45v if you have to.I believe default is 1.2v .

On some MB the SPD data is not read correctly and it is not set by XMP. Let us know how you make out!

Quote:
I also noticed the timing options on this MB, well there are a lot more settings than I have ever seen on any MB in the past, and more than listed by Corsair, not sure what to make of this.
All you need to be concerned with is the first four lines in "first information" The MB will take care of the rest as those are actually MB settings anyway and not directly related to your RAM. Just make sure you verify they are correct after enabling XMP. If not you can correct them manually.

Last edited by peanutz94; 03-05-2012 at 02:23 PM.
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Old 03-05-2012, 11:06 PM
Xerravon Xerravon is offline
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Hi,

I will give it a try and let mem test run for a while. I will get back soon. thanks.


Is it ever better to lower the speed and tighten up the timings for better performance?

thanks!!
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Old 03-05-2012, 11:32 PM
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Hi,

Something Ive noticed. I uped the qpi voltage to (it defaulted at 1.30 on profile 1, and 1.40 on profile 2) to 1.35 then stepped it up to 1.42 so far.

what I have seen, at 1.30 (default profile 1) it will run memtest for a long time before giving an error, anything above 1.35v it errors right away. so I think going to 1.45 wont do it but I will try anyway.

after, I will bring the dram voltage up a bit and try it. (I wont go over 1.59 for now)

thanks
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Old 03-06-2012, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Is it ever better to lower the speed and tighten up the timings for better performance?
Sure, as a matter of fact if you run CPUz and look at the SPD tab for your modules you will notice the different JDEC tables and as frequency goes down the timings get tighter. With a little trial and error you may get them a little tighter. But it wont really be noticeable without a bench mark.

Quote:
Something Ive noticed. I uped the qpi voltage to (it defaulted at 1.30 on profile 1, and 1.40 on profile 2) to 1.35 then stepped it up to 1.42 so far.

what I have seen, at 1.30 (default profile 1) it will run memtest for a long time before giving an error, anything above 1.35v it errors right away. so I think going to 1.45 wont do it but I will try anyway.

after, I will bring the dram voltage up a bit and try it. (I wont go over 1.59 for now)
No worries. I'm guessing profile 2 is 2000mhz and why it sets QPI that high. You can take the DIMM voltage to 1.65v max for that chip set and leave the QPI at 1.3v for now and see if that helps. There have been quite a few instances where 1.5v modules have to be run at 1.65v on x58 MB's You just dont want to go higher than 1.65v (intel spec). Dont worry about damaging th modules, you would need upwards of 2.0v before you would have to worry about that.

Have you tried testing each module individually with memtest? Or are you running both at the same time?

Last edited by peanutz94; 03-06-2012 at 09:21 AM.
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Old 03-06-2012, 12:13 PM
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Hi,
Right now (I have 3 modules in) I am running them with memtest with the bios set on auto. I have run it for quite a while like this and no errors but not as long as I have been with the OC settings.

So far no matter what I ve tried (I have tried everything from DRAM bus up to 1.6v and QPI up to 1.31) and it didn't error till the main window got up over 1500%, but it did error finally. so I decided to test them at auto speed and let it run for a long time.

Is setting the speed to 2000, or should I say, is it something this cpu should handle? or should I try lower?

I am really doing this for fun, and to learn, not so much that I expect to see any difference in running my machine. I am not worried about benchmarks, if I was going for benchmarks I would have spent more money :) (which I think is the key to winning that game)

I have seen some other settings in the bios called

CPU QPI strength

ALT QPI Strength
options on these are AUTO, TYPICAL SWEET SPOT, NORMAL, WEAKER

DRAM Data reference voltage on ch A,B,C

DRAM Control reference voltage on ch A,B,C

would or should these be messed with, or is this kind of trial and error.
the manual doesn't say much about any of these settings.

I noticed how fast you got your CPU running, that is amazing!!

I will let you know how this test comes out after a few hours.

thanks again,

John
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Old 03-06-2012, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Is setting the speed to 2000, or should I say, is it something this cpu should handle? or should I try lower?
2000mhz is a huge overclock for any cpu right now. I'm gonna say your just wont handle that much. So, yes , to answer your question. Try 1866mhz with the XMP timings. Set dimm voltage to 1.6v and qpi to 1.25v Leave everything else on auto. and make sure to reset the bios before making any of the above changes and see how it goes. You may have to even drop as far as 1600mhz if it comes down to it. But lets see how it goes.

Memtest is giving you no errors at defaults because they are running at 1333mhz which is the max supported bandwidth of your CPU. Anything else over that is overclocking as you know. So all bets are off!

Quote:
I noticed how fast you got your CPU running, that is amazing!!
Hehe, thanks. It took me a Looong time time and a LOT of tweaking to get there
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Old 03-06-2012, 06:44 PM
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Hi,

I think I got it at 2000mhz!!

It ran for about 4 hours at the auto setting with no errors (4000%) so I didnt want to give up yet.


I tried a few higher voltage settings, anyway what I did to get it (I so far anyway) Is I set the voltages to where I got the best/longest runnig without an error results 1.55V and 1.30V and I started playnng with some of those other settings I mentioned above I just stayed out of the yellow (when the bios numbers turn yellow). ok anyway what seems to have worked is


CPU QPI strength

ALT QPI Strength
options on these are AUTO, TYPICAL SWEET SPOT, NORMAL, WEAKER

I tried the sweet spot, then normal, then finally weaker. Weaker seems to have done it, It has been running (even under load) and I hit 4000% when I started writing this.

I will keep it running and let you know.

thanks a lot!!

John
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Old 03-06-2012, 11:49 PM
Xerravon Xerravon is offline
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I spoke too soon. It ran for hours at least 5 and no errors, then I shut memtest down and had rebooted. when I booted up again, I ran memtest and it errored right away.


I tried some settings at 1866mhz, it seems worse than the 2000mhz, weird. at 1866 it errors right away and often at the settings I have tried so far. this dosent make sense to me. I am assuming we are setting the voltage higher so the difference between a "1" And "0" can be seen cause fo the fall (and rise?) time of the signals?

I just realized I didn't check to see what the timings were at at 1866, I bet thats it.

John
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Old 03-07-2012, 01:33 AM
Xerravon Xerravon is offline
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Hi,

I found this info while searching, does this make any sense to you?
I dont understand about the CPU and memory multiplier, but if he is correct this may be why I am not stable. I am not sure if he is saying I would need to OC my cpu to 4gh or if it can be done another way. Confused



Quote:
Reason, unless you are going to OC at least 4+GHz the 2000 MHz will require {8/10} under-clocking to remain stable; that's the catch-22 of super-fast RAM.

People having problems with CMX12GX3M3A2000C9 are typically caught by the allure of 'XMP' that RAM is a mis-match for what you 'need' it to do. The reviewers having issue with that RAM are 1. Using the XMP where they should not, and 2. lack of OC CPU creates a huge sys bus disparity to cause the instability. Also, that RAM will run hot.
then later this

Quote:
Not exactly, the 2000 MHz Corsair's RAM {most 2000 MHz RAM} will run with BCLK/CPU Multiplier @ stock, just don't set the Memory Multiplier to 15 / {DDR3 2000MHz}. Frequently, the disparity 'can' cause some instability; instead run the 2000 MHz RAM @ 1600 MHz {under clocked/rated} or maybe 1800 MHz if running CPU @ stock. Otherwise if the BCLK = 200 MHz then fine set the Memory Multiplier = 10 / {DDR3 2000MHz}with a CPU Multiplier = 20 - it will do it's job very well.

Stable is never round numbers, and the ******** Frio is fine for 4GHz. Silverstone makes very good cases; just get one with top venting.
I found this below, there is more conversation

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/28...ampage-extreme

John

Last edited by Wired; 03-07-2012 at 02:46 AM. Reason: fixed URL
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  #11  
Old 03-07-2012, 11:02 AM
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Well, multipliers come in if you are trying to overclock the cpu and RAM together. You are trying to overclock just the memory at the moment.You really should not have to worry about them for the time being.

With everything you have tried, this is what i would do. Test each stick individually to see if one of them is failing. Somethings just not right. You should be able to run 1866 with little problems. So im wondering if your MB isn't having some sort of issue. A bad slot or something. You may even want to pull your CPU and check the pins for any bent ones as well. I know it's painstaking work but testing a known good stick in all the slots of the MB is something to try to. This way you can rule out a bad slot.
There is also a strong possibility that your particular CPU just does not like to have it's memory controller overclocked.

Something else that we haven't touched on was your BIOS. Do you have the latest ZBIOS for your MB? If not i would flash to the latest version asap. Then load setup defaults(important step)then enable XMP prof1 and

see what happens.

Quote:
I tried some settings at 1866mhz, it seems worse than the 2000mhz, weird. at 1866 it errors right away and often at the settings I have tried so far. this dosent make sense to me. I am assuming we are setting the voltage higher so the difference between a "1" And "0" can be seen cause fo the fall (and rise?) time of the signals?
No, setting the voltage higher is making up for the increased load on the memory controller.QPI anyway. BUSS voltage may also need to be increased with some chipsets.

The only other thing i can think of to do is to set your DIMM voltage to 1.65v(intel spec) and your frequency to 1866 with the XMP timings.Or whats on your sticks. Set the QPI to 1.3v. You said awhile back that raising the DIMM voltage to 1.6 seemed to help , and i know you can safely run your modules at that voltage. I have seen Ramguy recommend running the Vengeance modules at 1.65v on x58 systems many times.

Last edited by peanutz94; 03-07-2012 at 11:11 AM.
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  #12  
Old 03-07-2012, 01:29 PM
Xerravon Xerravon is offline
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Hi,

I will play around some more, if all else fails I will test the mem as you suggested. I will let you know.

thanks,

John
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Old 03-10-2012, 02:06 PM
Xerravon Xerravon is offline
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Hi,
I think I got it to run at 1866mhz (so far anyway). What I did, well what I was doing for 1866 was setting XMP profile, then changing from 2000mhz to1866mhz (or near to it). When I pick the xmp profile it also OC’s the cpu, it sets the BCLK speed from 133mhz to 143mhz (this changes the range of speeds selectable in the DRAM speed setting. In the 2000mhz range it goes from 21xxMhz {can’t remember the exact number} to 2006mhz) XMP was also changing the cpu multiplier from 25 to 24.

What I ended up doing is setting everything manually. I left the CPU at (BCLK at 133mhz and multiplier at 25) and the dram QPI to 1.30v and DRAM bus to 1.5v (these were my first try voltages with manual settings)
During this I had a scare, I was running the AI suite II program. It started giving warning popups, at first I didn’t catch what it was saying when I caught it, it was giving warnings saying my ICH, ICH PCI, CPU, DRAM, QPI, etc… was going over voltage, like around 5 volts!!! (which I was thinking would have destroyed something, plus the max BIOS settings didn't go anywhere near 5v) I tried setting all back to default, it still was giving random warnings. Then I set the voltages manually (off of auto), still gave the warnings.

I looked on Google and I found other cases similar to this, people were saying AI Suite was junk, not to use and to use HW monitor. So that’s what I did. Running both I would get the warnings on AI Suite II but HW monitor was rock solid. So I uninstalled AI Suite II.
It has been going good @1866mhz on memtest, on and off for a couple days now.

I have also started playing with cpu OCing using the CPU level up, it seems to run at 3.6ghz stable too, and at 3.8ghz even the RAM at around 2000mhz seems stable, though I haven’t done any long testing.
What is the save range for Voltage’s of the settings for CPU OCing? (I did notice in the BIOS when changing the voltage values, the color change’s from white, to yellow to red as you go up in voltage. For example the QPI when I hit 1.40 it turns yellow. Are these warnings usually a good indicator?

thanks,

John
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Old 03-11-2012, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
I looked on Google and I found other cases similar to this, people were saying AI Suite was junk, not to use and to use HW monitor. So that’s what I did. Running both I would get the warnings on AI Suite II but HW monitor was rock solid. So I uninstalled AI Suite II.
It has been going good @1866mhz on memtest, on and off for a couple days now.
Yeah, thats pretty common and mis-readings are almost always the out come. Choose one and uninstall the rest. I never liked AIsuite either. I never install it on new builds. As a matter of fact AI suite is correct about as much as my wife is!

It's normal for XMP to overclock the CPU a little . Usually that little extra bump is needed . But that usually only applies to someone who is just overclocking the memory. But when you start overclocking the CPU side as well, the rest goes out the window.

Quote:
What is the save range for Voltage’s of the settings for CPU OCing? (I did notice in the BIOS when changing the voltage values, the color change’s from white, to yellow to red as you go up in voltage. For example the QPI when I hit 1.40 it turns yellow. Are these warnings usually a good indicator?
This is just your BIOS making sure you know what your doing. As a general rule of thumb for that chipset would be 1.65v on the memory buss. Up to 1.45v on the QPI and as far as CPU goes i believe intel states 1.35v as being max for the CPU. But that can always be ignored as long as you can keep the chip cool and the overclock stable. I have seen overclocks running in excess of 1.4v *shrugs* Just keep an eye on your temps as you test each different set-up. But it sounds as if you are well on your way to getting it stable.

Cheers!

Last edited by peanutz94; 03-11-2012 at 03:01 PM.
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  #15  
Old 03-11-2012, 03:52 PM
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you have to increase qpi to 1.65-1.70v if you wana run rated speed of that ram. its all depend on the IMC. there are very few that takes less volts. and also set manually first 4
value of the ram as 10,10,10,28 rest all are auto. you need good cpu cooling for that aswell.
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