Firmware & Trim

There are a lot of posts occuring regarding new Firmware and TRIM - let's try and get some perspective on these issues:

Firstly firmware:

Firmware is the heart of your SSD it, by definition of its name, controls everything that happens inside your SSD. If there are flaws in the firmware then you will not get the best out of your drive, at worst it can *brick* your drive and render it useless.

Many of you are stating that other SSD m/f's are releasing updated firmware now; there is no denying this. However, if you take a closer look there are numerous problems occuring with these new firmware releases, such as:

Firmware has crashed my computer

Firmware can't be updated in AHCI mode

Firmware has issues with hibernation and sleep

Firmware freezes my computer ......

Are you getting the picture? The problem with writing firmware is that a multitude of parameters have to be catered for attempting to compensate for a myriad of permutations regarding the other components within a system, drivers (of which there are many issues, still unresolved), memory, graphics cards, power supplies ..... the list is almost endless and the computations that firmware has to deal with is extremely complex.

Writing firmware is not just some geek or a bunch of geeks sitting down in front of a screen and saying "yeah that does it"! A massive amount of testing has to be done to ensure that practically all bases are covered.

M/F's who release wholly untested firmware are treating their customers as unquantified beta testers; i.e. "lets chuck the firmware out and see what problems it highlights and then we can get them sorted" .... to me that is unacceptable and down right nasty.

Wiper Tools/GC:

Now we have wiper tools and garbage collection to look at; again the wiper tools that are out there are, again, causing issues:

Wiper Tool didn't work (most common)

Wiper Tool corrupted my data

Wiper Tool caused my SSD to be lost in Bios

Wiper Tool *Bricked* my drive .......

Any software that impacts on the SSD at a hardware level needs to be able to cope with the multitude of permutations as with the firmware. Why do you think Corsair have not released a Wiper tool? Not through indifference to its customers, but out of concern for the issues that surround incomplete tools.

Garbage Collection is another issue - for most people it is included in the most recent firmware's for each respective series of drives. How well it works again depends on individual systems and how well the components interact with each other (for that read *cooperate*). For some it works incredibly well, for others it seems to do little or nothing. This is something that has to be addressed by the people who write the firmware; i.e. Indilinx for the Corsair X-Series and Samsung for the Corsair Performance series.

TRIM

You will have to forgive me if I seem a tad rude here - but a lot of you are under the impression that TRIM is a God Given Right! It's not! TRIM is an Operating System feature that *can* be taken advantage of by SSD's and a very nice feature it is *if it works correctly*.

The people who write the firmware for your drives have to take a look at a huge picture of permutations and configurations. It's not something that can be churned out by simply adding a few lines of code. Some SSD m/f's released firmware that incorporated the TRIM function only to have to recall it because of issues - not only that, but they then had to try and find a method of *down grading* the firmware back to the previous version. If that was not something they considered before releasing the firmware then it simply aggrevates and already unpleasant situation.

It has since been discovered that TRIM cannot function alongside G/C because the two work against each other - this is now something else that has entered the equation and it now needs to be considered as to whether there should be options for both Trim and G/C which means two different versions of firmware.

So, I hope that you can see that it's not simply a matter of dancing with a few lines of code, but a whole lot of research and testing that needs to be done in an attempt to cover *all* bases; which, to be honest with you, is a nigh on impossibility. Even when the new firmwares are released and Trim is implemented, there will still be issues that will arise that need to be built into the equation and further firmware updates required.

In conclusion:

I've said this many, many times that SSD's a new cutting edge technology; the price you're paying for your drives is indicative of this. When you delve into the realms of cutting edge technology you can't sit back and whinge about its shortcomings. It was your choice to dip your toe in the waters and you have to be patient whilst unforseen problems are corrected and this, whether you like it or not, takes time.

Yes, it is inconvenient when performance drops and you have to image drives and run secure erase software to restore performance, but it isn't life threatening. I find it inconvenient when my phone bill arrives, but I don't whinge on about it, I deal with it.

So, let Corsair deal with the companies writing the firmware and trust in their judgement as to when it is practicable to release these updates and other possible tools - *WHEN THEY'RE READY*!

Personally I have a great deal of respect and faith in Corsair, because they are, in the long term, looking after the interests of their customers and not treating them as beta testers.

And in you're wondering where I get off preaching to you - I am an A+ Certified Engineer and a Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer and I am still learning something new every day that passes.

So stop griping at Corsair and be patient - when the time is right you will get what you need to ensure that your SSD's perform the way we all expect them to.

Footnote:

BTW I've removed my SSD from my system and reverted back to spinning HDD's (just got two new Samsung 1T Spinpoint F3's) until the new firmware is released and most of the issues are either clarified or sorted; I value my investment in this new technology and I'm protecting this investment by being prepared to wait until I can get the best from my drive, which will be soon - of that I am sure.

I agree with most what you said, exept this one:

You will have to forgive me if I seem a tad rude here - but a lot of you are under the impression that TRIM is a God Given Right! It's not! TRIM is an Operating System feature that *can* be taken advantage of by SSD's and a very nice feature it is *if it works correctly*.

Corair advertise(d) with it, so yes, it is a right...

Besides that, if SSD is not yet "ready".. It should not be sold... Apperantelly corair (and a lot of other companies) are selling SSD's that are not yet finished.

Look to yourself, how stupid is it to go back to spinning drives because your expensive ssd's are not yet what you expect from it?

Firstly Altijd where do Corsair say that their SSD drives support TRIM? It's not anywhere on their website, in fact in the FAQ sticky at the top of the forum this is quoted:

Q: Does my X-Series SSD support the TRIM function in Windows 7?

X-Series SSDs with firmware v1.0 do not support the TRIM function. Upgraded firmware revisions, including revisions with TRIM support, and updating utilities will be made available from the SSD Download Archive on the Corsair forum.

Who says the SSD's are not ready? If it you can use it and it works then it is ready; if you mean not ready due to *performance degradation* then that is an area which will be addressed in the next firmware update. As I stated this is *new* cutting edge technology that has been released to the general public and as such their will be problems that will show up - it happens in all *new* technology releases.

If you did your homework properly and studied the reviews and technical sheets on SSD's then you may have not been so eager to jump in the water. As you chose to do so you have to learn to swim ... and by that I mean you have to accept that everything may not be squeeky clean perfect the way you want it or expect it and that some kind of (generous) leeway should be granted until problems are sorted out (which takes time).

As for my reverting back to spinning drives - I'll explain a little more as to why I chose to do so. I test a *lot* of new software as it is released and I did not want to aggravate the performance degradation on my drive further by installing and uninstalling a lot of software. As it is I have decided to keep spinning drives for that and as such I purchased two Samsung Spinpoint 1TB F3's .... one for testing purposes and one for storage. Once the new firmware is released I will update my drive, clean it and reinstall Windows 7 along with the programs I use on a daily basis. When I want to test software I will boot to a spinning drive. As I have already written extensively to my SSD I don't want to do anymore unnecessary writing which will inevitably shorten the drive's life.

Davyc - nice post! FYI, "whinger"? eheh

I've met MCSE'rs who don't know how to format or instal PCI cards, so good for you expanding your horizons :) Side note: You may be interested in the Petri forum in my sig for work purposes. Lots of MCSE'rs + Microsoft MVPs floating around there.

"And in you're wondering where I get off preaching to you - I am an A+ Certified Engineer and a Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer and I am still learning something new every day that passes."

Thank you... I needed a good laugh!

my thoughts on the trim issue and newer firmware revisions and no way to enable it on older p128 drives, being and end user is.

next time i want one or anyone wants a ssd recommending i will not buy or recommend corsair !

@ hammyuk

You had better include all the other m/f's who use Samsung controllers for their drives then as they are exactly the same as Corsair - it's samsung that are the bottleneck with regards to the firmware problem, not Corsair.

So many people think it's a 'them and us' situation and that Corsair is deliberately hanging back - they can't deliver what they don't have. It's like blaming your doctor because a fuse has blown in your hairdryer.

Thanks for this post. You made some valid points here and I hope it puts things into perspective for the more impatient users.

As a sidenote, proving your knowledge in an area of IT is important for people to put their faith in you but darned if I've ever heard someone talk about their A+ as engineering level. I think the proper wording is IT Technician...and probably half of the users on this forum could write it tomorrow and pass.

I agree with bonfire-db's side note.

You're an engineer if you either have a university degree in engineering or operate a train engine.

I've had both certifications for many years (and countless others) but if I was to call myself an engineer for that or even mention them as something valuable, I would probably die of shame on the spot.

You're an engineer if you either have a university degree in engineering or operate a train engine.

DO NOT POST STATEMENTS LIKE THIS LATE AT NIGHT!!!

I laughed so hard I woke my wife :p:

You're an engineer if you either have a university degree in engineering or operate a train engine.

.

I won't consider I am an engineer if I have a BA, MS or PHD, unless I get my PE license.

Guy's the point I was attempting to convey was that I'm not just some home-grown wannabe tech and that I have taken the time to learn my 'trade' as it were and even though I've taken the time (not to mention the expense lol) to get these under my belt I'm still learning something new everyday that passes by even though I've been at this for 30 years; btw my first computer was a Sinclair ZX-81 and what a joy that was lol

Here's some info on A+ Certificiation if you're interested A+ Infol

I now know where you're coming from.

Not unlike solid state storage we're discussing here, ZX-81 and Spectrum had a similar issue with its persistent storage (regular audio tapes) - they degraded with usage, but at least the Secure Erase procedure was easily done back then.

As far as MCSE and A+ (and many others), they prove NOTHING about person's knowledge. On the contrary, mentioning them in that context might cause some people to have second thoughts about your expertise.

Enough fun now, let's stay focused on the topic!

As I know from my own experience with Microsoft exams, all they do is prove that you can read a book. I'm a certified Dynamics AX Developer, as that was required by my employer. However the information I used to pass the exam is completely different to the information I use to do my job. Half the questions asked in the Microsoft exams involve scenarios you will never ever experience outside of the exam room.

Anyway, back on topic.....

So what was the purpose of this thread? To be honest it's not very informative and looks like someone jumping on his soap box and then we jump way off topic.

Not trying to put down the original poster but there's not any real meat there.

-Joe

So what was the purpose of this thread? To be honest it's not very informative and looks like someone jumping on his soap box and then we jump way off topic.

 

Not trying to put down the original poster but there's not any real meat there.

 

-Joe

Speaking of off topic :roll:

The first post here is very informative and addresses a lot of issues and discussion topics that are posted here daily.

The purpose was for the poster to collect his thoughts about the subject by writing them down. He also tried to sound important by pompously sharing his notes with everyone, from his "engineering" perspective. You know when you kick an empty barrel... it appears huge and impressive but the sound is unmistakeably hollow.

But yes... what he wrote is relatively factual and accurate. Still, it's merely regurgitation and not original thought.

The purpose was for the poster to collect his thoughts about the subject by writing them down. He also tried to sound important by pompously sharing his notes with everyone, from his "engineering" perspective. You know when you kick an empty barrel... it appears huge and impressive but the sound is unmistakeably hollow.

 

But yes... what he wrote is relatively factual and accurate. Still, it's merely regurgitation and not original thought.

There is no need to be insulting. If the thread is not useful to you, move on.

Guys, that's ENOUGH. Anyone else steps off topic and the whole thread gets sanitized from this off shoot.

We're all pretty laid back here and there's no problems with going off topic, but when it starts to get into personal snipes (which is against the rules FYI), I'm stepping in.

Hi Guys I'm new to Corsair's Forums. I've been following the SSD threads since I bought 3 x 32Gb X series SSDs to put in raid0. I somewhat understand the difficulty involved with new technology and the complexity of gaining broad compatibility and the associated confusion therein. It would be of interest to know where Corsair is at in regard development of new firmware, though.

"Q: Where can I download new firmware and update utilities?

A: All new firmware revisions and software utilities can be found in the SSD Download Archive on the Corsair forum which will be crated shortly.

With this as the only indicator of what or when, typos and all, it becomes a little frustrating left wondering. Perhaps there is information elsewhere I have missed?

I would expect that Corsair will have new firmware available just before or by the cut-off of Windows 7 RC. At this point many early adopters will be forced to replace Win7 RC with presumably the full version of Win7. It would be timely for Corsair to have firmware update available at this point I would think.

It has been stated numerous times that firmware would be released when it is ready and when there is an easy way for consumers to do it.

Yes, some other SSD companies have released firmware to the wild but not without multiple complaints of issues with them. Only those companies know the percentages of issues versus total drives sold and if the percentages of drives with firmware issues are within normal reason, but that's not up for discussion here. When it's ready, it's ready, and not a minute sooner.