The Corsair User Forums  

Go Back   The Corsair User Forums > Corsair Product Discussion > Cooling

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-06-2019, 03:56 AM
Blobfish Blobfish is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 6
POST ID # = 992851
Blobfish Reputation: 10
Woah! H110i user - Commander Pro - Unable to post a support ticket so coming here for help

Hi, for some reason my ticket won't send as the search part number button on the support page isn't working for me, so I thought I'd come on here and post what was my ticket in the hope of getting some guidance.

My current system and operating temps & Upgrading my setup to ML140 fans & Commander Pro

I currently use an H110i cooling AIO with stock SP fans for my 8700k cpu. I use IQUE to set fan profile curves for my CPU and AI Suite to set fan curves for case fans.

(Temps in Celsius - it's winter so ambient temps are probably around 19 degrees)
My coolingliquid temps are around 35 degrees under sustained 100% load - fan speeds in the high 900rpm - these are set to hit 2000rpm at liquid temp of 40 degrees. However, the CPU package temp and individual cores are reading back around 92-95 degrees for the duration of the stress test.
I've read in a few places that monitoring off a liquid temp of <40 degrees is the best way to set up the H110i. However prior to using IAO systems I've always looked at the package temp and made sure it's below 90. Could you let me know which temperature I should monitor (or whether I should be monitoring both) and what safe temperature limits should be?

It would be really nice if the system was quieter during idle / low use. Is there a way to reduce the h110i fans below 500rpm using ICUE?

Now onto the upgrade:
The SP fans are very noisy in general, but especially under load. I'm looking to upgrade to ML140 RGB fans + Lighting Node PRO OR LL140 RGB fans + Lighting Node PRO.

Also I actually prefer the dual loop lighting of the LL series and have heard they're quieter than the MLs but I believe the static pressure of the LLs are not as efficient at keeping the CPU cool under load. Could you give a recommendation based on my current temps and fan speeds with the SPs?

And are the ML fans significantly quieter than the SPs?

I 'd ideally like a way of controlling all of my fans including my other case fans through one piece of software (iCUE). At present I have to use AI suite to control the case fans that are connected to the motherboard and sadly I'm restricted to having the fans running at all times. I'd like the option to turn off these fans when idle or during low use - As I understand it, the Commander Pro would allow all my case fans to be connected to the device and then be controllable through ICUE software and controlled through there?
My last question is: would my H110i fans also be connected to the device or be left in it's current setup and controlled through ICUE? I ask because I've read that if the H110i fan curves are to be configured from the liquid temps, then it shouldn't be connected to the Commander Pro.

Apologies for the many questions, but I'm excited to hear back and look forward to upgrading my rig on your recommendations.
Kind regards,
Mike
Reply With Quote


  #2  
Old 02-06-2019, 08:58 AM
c-attack c-attack is offline
Registered User
c-attack's PC Specs
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 7,489
POST ID # = 992870
c-attack c-attack Reputation: 103
Default

You must monitor both coolant temp and package temperature. They are assessing two different things. Coolant temperature is effectively how much heat has been dumped into your system. For each +1C rise in coolant temperature, you will also see a +1C rise in CPU temp. It is the minimum possible CPU temp and the rise in coolant is therefore effectively a penalty -- one we all endure to some degree. The location of the package temperature sensor varies on CPU models, but it is taking the temperature on the other end - the socket/pin side of the CPU. This certainly matters and it mostly likely to signify critical danger for the CPU. However, aside from the added coolant temperature rise as part of that value, the cooler has no effect on package temperature. It is all voltage and the ability of the CPU to conduct heat out of itself and through the cold plate on the cooler. If your coolant temp started at 29C and went to 35C, the most perfect external cooler than removed all heat the instant the CPU transmitted it into the water stream would only reduce your CPU package temp by -6C or into the upper 80s. That is probably not what you are looking for. If you package temp is 95C, you need to reduce Vcore or verify your other regulating settings. Or perhaps you are simply running Prime95 and trying to give yourself a heart attack for no particular reason. 90C package temp for routine use is a problem. I would be less concerned if it came only from a specific stress test, but you might also be able to fine tune the BIOS response.

LL140 vs ML140 RGB - On a radiator, the ML series is going to be more effective at putting air through the restricted opening. On a 8700K, even when overclocked, this likely has no effect on the end CPU temp. I just went from ML-RGB to LL on my 280mm CPU radiator a month ago. No change. Coolant temp is the same and peak CPU temps are the same. I might be able to create a testing environment where the ML-RGB pulls ahead slightly if I run it long enough, but that would not be a real world application for most people. Where I do see a cooling difference is on larger heat sources like my GPU. On that stand alone loop with a 300-350W heat source, the LL starts to drop a few degrees behind. For most people, 32C vs 34-35C is not going to be relevant for their GPU temps. The ML-RGB will drop down to 400 rpm and max out around 1100 rpm on the radiator. The LL140 has a 600 rpm minimum and will climb to about 1300. Oddly, the LL might be less noticeable at the 600 minimum than the ML at the lower speed, however at full blast the ML are going to be quiet than other fans on a radiator. It is a smoother, medium tone.

In order to dump AI Suite and get iCUE control of all case fans, you will need a fan controller - the Commander Pro. That will also serve as the lighting controller in the RGB set-up. Your cooler would still control its two fans and it shows as a separate device than the C-Pro. However, the C-Pro has many control variable choices, including coolant temperature so you can make other fans run from that variable to balance the cooler or whatever you need. Make sure you read through the FAQ. There a lot of niggly little details.

http://forum.corsair.com/v3/showthread.php?t=173880
Reply With Quote


  #3  
Old 02-06-2019, 04:33 PM
Blobfish Blobfish is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 6
POST ID # = 992946
Blobfish Reputation: 10
Default

Hi first of all thanks so much for your lengthy and informative response.

My system was under a cpu stress test to get those 90-95 degree package temps. So unrealistic for normal use. When playing games the package temp generally is in the window of 30-70 degrees but can still spike at around 90 very briefly.

So from what I understand of what you’ve told me, if my cpu package is running at 95 and my coolant is at 35 degrees at 100% capacity and fans are at 900rpm. I could increase the fan curves so that the coolant drops by 5 degrees to 30 degrees, in therory this could drop my cpu package temp to 90 degrees.

Is this necessary given in normal use it only rarely spikes above 90 degrees? If so would you advise me to play with the fan curves or Lower the voltages?

Ok so you’re saying it won’t make a lot of difference noise-wise until the cpu is really worked hard and then the MLs are quieter? For that reason I’m leaning towards the MLs despite the fact I prefer the aesthetics of the dual loop Rgb of the LLs.

What was you reason for switching to LLs if you don’t mind me asking?

From the info provided the c-Pro sounds like a good solution and will still allow me to control all my fans from a single piece of software. Thanks again for your help!
Reply With Quote


  #4  
Old 02-06-2019, 06:22 PM
c-attack c-attack is offline
Registered User
c-attack's PC Specs
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 7,489
POST ID # = 992958
c-attack c-attack Reputation: 103
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blobfish View Post
So from what I understand of what you’ve told me, if my cpu package is running at 95 and my coolant is at 35 degrees at 100% capacity and fans are at 900rpm. I could increase the fan curves so that the coolant drops by 5 degrees to 30 degrees, in therory this could drop my cpu package temp to 90 degrees.
Theoretically that is right, except there are no fans you can put on the radiator to drop the coolant temp by 5C. Best possible coolant delta might be +3C and that would be with extremely large or external radiators or fan speeds that would require hearing protection -- all for a 2C drop. Not the way to attack this.

The place to start is in the BIOS. Take a look at the Asus OC guide for Z270 (it's the same for Z370). It's a bit technical, but has some important items mentioned all Z370 owners should look at.

1) What is your Vcore peak level right now? This is the largest single factor to the end CPU temp. Too many motherboards like to use automatic overclocking tricks to boost ratings, but do so with an abudnace of voltage. This leads to higher than expected temps in the "stock" confgiuration. In reality, most Z370 owners are running a +500 MHz OC right out of the box. That's fine, except the voltage needs adjustment.

2) What value is your Vcore set to? Is it on Auto, a specified adaptive voltage, or manual/fixed? There are some definite things that need to be done for Auto/Adaptive voltage, particularly the Load IA Load Line Calibration settings.

3) What kind of overclock do you want to run? Most people are aiming for 5.0Ghz. Probably attainable, but will keep maximum load temps in the kind of scary range. The one dramatic thing you can do to any 8700K is delid. While certainly a bit daunting, taking 20-30C off your end CPU temps is miles above anything you can every accomplish with any other trick. I bought mine as a delid. My normal peak temps are in the 50s at 5.0/1.30v. I don't even think about my CPU, knowing it can never reach critical temps.



If you are referring to the SP140L fans than came with the H110i, then yes, everything is quieter than those fans. I am not a strong advocate for that model. It is an inexpensive fan designed to run 2000 rpm. It's going to be loud. Prior to the RGB wars, the ML140 Pro was the dead certain upgrade for the 280mm coolers. Total no brainer - quieter, looked better, and even better performance. The ML-RGB have a lower maximum (it's going to peak around 1180 on a radiator). That is enough for most people for most uses, but it therefore has less capability than the SP140L at those 1500-2000 rpm speeds, the ones nobody uses. I think the best thing anyone can do on the H110i/H115i is get off the stock fans.


HD vs ML vs LL - There are three types of RGB fans in Corsair's lineup, each with different physical characteristics.

The HD was first. Clear frame, 12 "spotlight" LEDs, looks good from both sides, but sprays a lot of light, almost pastel in tone.

ML-RGB - same magnetic levitation bearing as the ML Pro. This eliminates the coarse sound typically heard when you mount a fan in the inverted position, like top mount exhaust. 4 interior mounted LEDs, giving it a different look than the old "4 corner style" mounts. Neutral coloring. However, while I never noticed it when I only ran 2 on the radiator, you can hear the bearing sound at very quiet levels when you have an entire case full of them. This could be irrelevant, unnoticeable, or infuriating, depending on your sensitivity and environmental noise floor. Frankly, I like a little bit of smooth airflow noise to cover over my two pumps. The ML is so quiet at 400 there is no airflow noise and the stuff I don't want to hear comes center stage. This is why I say 600 on the LL is "quieter" than 400 on the ML all around. It's not a loudness measurement, but a perceived more pleasing tone. Typically that is more valuable.

LL - 16 LEDs, 12 outer/4 inner. Light diffuser "cools" the light spectrum. Whites are bit cold for my taste, but it is definitely very visually appealing. The downside is the larger fan hub in the center makes the blades shorter and thus it moves less air compared to fan X at the same speed. People get carried away and interpret -12 cfm = +12C in temp rise. On my 8700K at 5.0/1.30, I cannot detect any difference between the three of these. 180W is not enough to make the airflow matter. I can let the LL or any other fan sit at 800-900 rpm and keep my temps below 50C in Winter. It's only on the big watt or higher resistance custom radiators where this could become a noticeable issue. The other "knock" on the LL is while they are gorgeous from the front ring side, they are fairly pedestrian from the back. In fact, they look just like the ML from the backside. It certainly would be nice to have rings on both sides, but that's how it is. Depending on your set-up, this could be critical or irrelevant in a front in, top+rear out configuration.

You asked why the change to LL. I already had the other two. The HD had long been my favorite. Two things changed. 1) I was running an odd reverse flow set-up where all 5x140 LL would be front side visible with the case rotated to 90 deg as I preferred. 2) Corsair finally added a hardware lighting feature to iCUE to enable you to run basic patterns without the software and during the boot cycle. I was not going to commit to more fans until that was addressed. My general advice with any of the RGB fans is to pick based on appearance. The performance differences are negligible. You are paying a lot for the set-up. Most people are going to appreciate the visual difference every time they glance over, as opposed to a 1C difference in temperature.

Last edited by c-attack; 02-06-2019 at 06:27 PM.
Reply With Quote


  #5  
Old 02-08-2019, 06:06 AM
Blobfish Blobfish is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 6
POST ID # = 993146
Blobfish Reputation: 10
Thumbs up

Once again thanks for such a detailed reply.
My core voltage is 1.040v in the bios. I’m unsure how to find peak voltage through the bios will investigate using hardware monitoring tools over the weekend.
CPU power is set to auto but the ‘AC and DC load line’ values are also set to auto as opposed to 0.1 in your example.

I had used AI suite to do the base-overclock and the result was: +40% overclock.
Target turbo frequency: 5200MHz
Target cpu @ avx freq: 4900Mhz

Delidding is a bit daunting for me. Given that I don’t really need that much performance so possibly the simplest solution is to just tune down that OC. Unless you suggest otherwise?

I have seen eBay delidding services for £15. Might be worth a try...

As for the fans I’m primarily looking for ones to add to my cpu radiator so they will be pushing through the radiator and out the top. I assume the Rgb ring is on the intake side? If so then I’ll probably go for the LLs on your advice. This way I can also get LLs for the intake case fans on the front of the case and have the RGB harmonised through ICUE using the C-Pro and the light node which comes with the LL fan package.

Thanks for all your help, I’ll run some tests on Vcore peak over the weekend.
Reply With Quote


  #6  
Old 02-08-2019, 06:29 PM
c-attack c-attack is offline
Registered User
c-attack's PC Specs
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 7,489
POST ID # = 993239
c-attack c-attack Reputation: 103
Default

OK, this is all good news. You are essentially running a stock overclock induced by AI Suite. It's going to be voltage heavy and that means you likely can cut the top end of your temps off with a few normal BIOS tweaks.

So is that an all core 5.2GHz overclock? Yeah, not 1.04v. Likely to be more like 1.35-1.40v. When you use AI Suite to overclock, it writes the settings into the software but does not make them visible in the BIOS. This can be problematic if you have to reset CMOS or update the BIOS. Always, always, always, use AI Suite to revert your settings to default before trying to mess around in the BIOS to make changes. Not doing so is a good way to wind up in a boot loop from hell. Even better will be getting rid of AI Suite entirely. It is useful for case fan control, but once you have the Commander Pro iCue will do that and you can remove and scrub it out. There is nothing sophisticated about its overclocking and it only tests it for seconds at each voltage level. It is a quick OC. I am actually impressed it let you run 5.2. Must be a decent CPU specimen and that also is promising.

When you are ready to manually overclock, there are several things you need to do after entering the BIOS.

Extreme Tweak/AI Tweaker column (name depends on board)

a) Change SVID behavior to "best case scenario". This will keep it from overfluffing the voltage.
b)Multicore enhancement (MCE) -> Turn it off. We will do this manually. Having it on triggers several other things you don't want.
c) AVX negative offset - set to zero unless you will be running a lot of AVX programs. Personally, I prefer to find where the limit is first, then decide how to handle it.
d) Core Info - Sync All Cores - Single core peak loads rarely exist, except in old benchmark tools.
e) Set your Multiplier. We'll need to decide what you want to do. I would start at 5.0 and see how things go, so that is a 50 multiplier.


Slide down further:

f) External Digi+ power Control -> Sub menu -> Load Line Calibration 6

Go back to main Extreme Tweaker column.

g) Internal CPU power management -> IA/DC load line calibration set to 0.01. You only need to do this if you are going to run adaptive voltage. In manual mode it has no meaning, however it will bring critical voltage levels if you change and don't set this. Better to do it anyway.

Back to main column

Cache multiplier- leave it alone for now. Can give a small bump after testings.

CPU Core/Cache voltage - Now you need to choose adaptive or manual/fixed. Conventional wisdom is you test your voltages at fixed settings, then convert to adaptive when proven stable. I tend to think if you are going to use adaptive, then you need to test adaptive. Either way, this is the place to choose. Look at the guide pictures for this.

The adaptive setting is a bit odd.
Core Cache Mode = adaptive
Offset sign = +
Additional Turbo Mode voltage = this is where you set the actual Vcore you want. So if 1.35 is the target, this is where it goes.

I would like to know your peak Vcore now at 5.2 You will be able to see it in AI Suite and it will hit that value quite regularly. Normally I would say start at 5.0 and 1.32v. What you are running now may give me more insight.


That's pretty much it, although if you are running a higher DRAM frequency, you will probably need to adjust VCCIO and System Agent (VCCSA) voltage at the bottom. That can be discussed if needed.
Reply With Quote


  #7  
Old 02-09-2019, 11:03 AM
Blobfish Blobfish is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 6
POST ID # = 993334
Blobfish Reputation: 10
Default

Vcore in AI suite was 1.4v as you expected.
I set the cpu oc bk to default and uninstalled aisuite as per your suggestion.
Temps now under 50 degrees at 100% load. But pc noticeably slower.
I’m now going to begin implementing your suggested settings in the bios unless you have any further details?

Thanks again
Reply With Quote


  #8  
Old 02-09-2019, 11:22 AM
c-attack c-attack is offline
Registered User
c-attack's PC Specs
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 7,489
POST ID # = 993336
c-attack c-attack Reputation: 103
Default

Go for 50 multiplier (5.0GHz) and 1.32v additional turbo voltage in adaptive mode. Make sure you change that IA/DC string to 0.01 for both boxes. You can also go 1.32 manual/fixed, but it will probably eat about 20W more at idle.

Run a basic stress test. I don’t really like Prime and I think it is too tough a hurdle to pass unless you use similar programs. If you can be stable for 30-60 minutes, move on to your normal activities.

While less important for cpu overclocking compared to memory training, it is a good idea to make a system image or restore point you can load up if things go really wrong. Also, before you start, Google “AI Suite cleaner”. There will be an Asus drop box with the small download. Run it. That program usually leaves behind traces unless you professionally scrub it with the above or something similar like Revo.

NVM. Here.
https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthrea...uite-3-cleaner

Last edited by c-attack; 02-09-2019 at 11:25 AM.
Reply With Quote


  #9  
Old 02-09-2019, 01:15 PM
Blobfish Blobfish is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 6
POST ID # = 993349
Blobfish Reputation: 10
Default

Great start so far!
I'm using Intel Extreme Tuning Utility to stress test for 30 mins.

5.0ghz at 1.32v seems to be stable. Fan speeds around 700-800rpm CPU temperature of 75 degrees.

Using MSI Kombustor CPU burner temperatures hit 85 degrees.

So now to try 5.1ghz?
Reply With Quote


  #10  
Old 02-09-2019, 01:56 PM
Blobfish Blobfish is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 6
POST ID # = 993356
Blobfish Reputation: 10
Default

ok, so it's unstable at 5.2ghz at 1.36v.
but looks stable at 5.1ghz at 1.32v

Think I'll stick with 5.1ghz it's probably not worth the extra voltage needed and heat created for that small bump in clock speed.

I've ordered the LL140s and Commander Pro btw :D

You've been amazing with all of this and 'thankyou' doesn't cover the extent of my gratitude - my peak temps are 10 degrees cooler! with only a minor reduction to processing power.
Reply With Quote


  #11  
Old 02-09-2019, 02:02 PM
c-attack c-attack is offline
Registered User
c-attack's PC Specs
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 7,489
POST ID # = 993358
c-attack c-attack Reputation: 103
Default

That's a nice little CPU. I am not sure I can run 5.1@1.32 and I am delidded. Maybe I will take a stab at later. I have been rock steady stable at 5.0/1.30 for AVX for about a year. The temperature to voltage scale gets pretty steep as you go past 1.30v. If you find normal use temp are too high at 1.32v, dropping down to 5.0/1.29 (or thereabouts) might take a noticeable chunk off the top end.
Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:29 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.