neo_x Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Help! Going crazy over here - had this motherboard for about 3 months now, and despite this memory being on the QVL list, I am unable to use both modules without Vista freezing on me every 5 minutes of booting into it. Put modules in orange slot. Both modules, tested individually, pass like between 16 to 25 passes of memtest, without errors. Combined, I've tested them with 16 passes , without any errors. In vista, one module has passed prime95 for more than 7 hours individually. I have the following configuration: Latest Motherboard drivers installed from Asus Latest Catalyst (8.12) Latest Samsung Digital Drivers All else default windows software Bios settings: AI Overclock Tweaker Configure Advanced CPU Settings CPU Ratio Setting = 8.5 Configure System Performance Settings Ai OVerclocking Tuner = Manual CPU Ratio Setting = 8.5 FSB Frequency = 333 PCIE Frequency = 100 FSB Strap to North Bridge = 333 DRAM Frequency = DDR3-1333MHz Dram CLK Skew on Channel A1 = Auto Dram CLK Skew on Channel A2 = Auto Dram CLK Skew on Channel B1 = Auto Dram CLK Skew on Channel B2 = Auto Dram TIming Control = Manual Primary Information CAS# Latency = 9 DRAM Clocks DRAM RAS# to CAS #Delay = 9 DRAM Clocks DRAM RAS# Precharge = 9 DRAM Clocks DRAM RAS# Activate to Precharge = 24 DRAM Clocks RAS# to RAS# Delay = Auto Row Refresh Cycle Time = Auto Write Recovery Time = Auto Read to Precharge Time = Auto Secondary Information Read to Write Delay (S/D) = Auto Write to Read Delay (S) = Auto Write to Read Delay (D) = Auto Read to Read Delay (S) = Auto Read to Read Delay (D) = Auto Write to Write Delay (S) = Auto Write to Write Delay (D) = Auto Third Information WRITE to PRE delay = Auto READ to PRE delay = Auto PRE to PRE delay = Auto ALL PRE to ACT delay = Auto ALL PRE to RED Delay = Auto DRAM Static Read Control = Auto DRAM Dynamic Write Control = Auto DRAM Read Training = Auto DRAM Write Training = Auto MEM. OC Charger = Auto Ai Clock Twister = Auto Ai Transaction Booster = Auto Voltages CPU Voltage = Auto CPU GTL Voltage Reference(0/2) = Auto CPU GTL Voltage Reference(1/3) = Auto CPU PLL Voltage = Auto FSB Termination Voltage = Auto DRAM Voltage = 1.6v NB Voltage = Auto NB GTL Reference = Auto SB Voltage = Auto PCIE SATA Voltage = Auto Load-Line Calibration = Auto CPU Spread Spectrum = Disabled PCIE Spread Spectrum = Disabled CPU Clock Skew = Auto NB Clock Skew = Auto CPU Margin Enhancement = Optimized Help !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsair Employee RAM GUY Posted January 23, 2009 Corsair Employee Share Posted January 23, 2009 Do you have SP-1 installed for Vista? You could also try bumping the memory voltage 1 step above 1.6v. If this is not helpful, try raising your memory controller votlage, aka NB voltage 1 step above the stock setting. If these steps are not helpful, you may have an issue with the memory controller on the motherboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekT Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 NB Voltage = 1.35v Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo_x Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 Hello, No I do not have SP1 installed at the moment, also mentioned this in my original post. Do you want me to install SP1 and test for stability again, or use new settings you've told me about only (can you please let me know what settings do you recommend ? VRAM = 1.70? 1.72? 1.8? NB=?? You mentioned one step above - is that one decimal point above what ever appears when I move it out of auto e.g. if it was 1.10, I should make it 1.11 ?) or both? Just to confirm, with the bios settings I mentioned above (on non - SP1 vista), I have no issues if I install and test each individual module alone for stability (prime95) in vista. Do you have SP-1 installed for Vista? @Derek I will try bumping the NB to 1.35 and get back to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekT Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Pre SP1 you need to remove one stick and run with a single 2GB module when installing Vista. There is an issue with Vista Pre SP1 and > 2GB. Update to SP1 and shut down. Install the second stick and boot into windows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo_x Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 Pre SP1 you need to remove one stick and run with a single 2GB module when installing Vista. There is an issue with Vista Pre SP1 and > 2GB. Update to SP1 and shut down. Install the second stick and boot into windows. I saw the error description on the MS site - they say that the error occurs when "installing" vista with 4GB ram. I have already removed 2GB ram for installing vista, and then tested each module individually with prime95. So here is what I understand: 1. MS says you get the error only while installing vista with 4GB ram (I did get the crashes, so I removed one module, and installed vista). 2. Are you saying that Vista has a problem with 4GB ram "in general" - so that even if I've tried #1 above, and no matter what settings I use in the bios, there is still a chance non-sp1-vista is just misbehaving due to incompatibility with 4GB ram? Thanks! (Sorry if I sound thick - I just want to be clear on everything and not give anything away to chance). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekT Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Memtest passes and Memtest tests the stability of the DRAM. DRAM is passive, not active. DRAM can, when unstable, corrupt data files, but that's the extent of it's damage abilities. It can not damage hardware. Secondly, the VISTA issue is a bug and as such is not fully repeatable with different hardware which behooves you to just install the SP1 to be certain. That being said, you may have issues that are motherboard related and which neither BIOS or removal of the DRAM stick until SP1 is running. Clearly the issue is external to the DRAM. So, my advice is to increase the NB voltage, remove a DRAM module, install Vista and update to SP1. Then shut down and insert the second module. Then try a repeat of the issue. If the issue repeats, raise the NB to 1.40v. If it repeats, then I advise you to look to RMA of the mainboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo_x Posted January 24, 2009 Author Share Posted January 24, 2009 OK - this is getting reaaally wierd now. I've installed Vista with one module in the orange slot closest to CPU. Vista works perfectly, no issues. Now, since these are a matched pair of ram modules, and they should be identical, right? Well, if I remove the module with which I installed vista with, and replace it with the other module, restart pc, try to boot into vista, here is what it does: 1. I get a blue screen of death, and the screen goes away very quickly, so fast that I can't read anything, and the pc reboots. 2. Sometimes its so fast that I don't even get a bsod - it just reboots. 3. At other times it just freezes. Is there a problem with the ram??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo_x Posted January 24, 2009 Author Share Posted January 24, 2009 OKKKK.. Yep, defo issues with the second module - had to bump up the memory voltage to 1.7 and NB voltage to 1.20 so that vista can boot with it. Then started torture test again with prime95 - went away to take a nap, came back and saw the login screen to vista. Logged in, saw a message 'you got an error, please submit to ms' etc etc - description showed it was a bsod. How can one dimm work with default voltage e.g 1.60, while the other doesn't even boot? And still doesn't work when the memory voltage is upped . Trying with 1.80 memory voltage and 1.35 NB voltage still doesn't work, prime95 gave up in 2 minutes with hardware failure message ... RMA??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekT Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Memtest the DRAM singly. Do not use Prime95 to test the DRAM. Use the same settings for both sticks. If one stick fails, and the other passes, then you have grounds for RMA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo_x Posted January 24, 2009 Author Share Posted January 24, 2009 Ok - will run the tests again - how many passes do you think are sufficient to determine the ram module is good? What settings should I change (in the original ones I posted) if I want to test the kit (two modules in dual channel)? And how many passes? UPDATE: 2nd Module caused memtest to crash during 6th run - strange character appeared (accented E). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekT Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 No need to determine any more. RMA of the modules is clearly appropriate. You can RMA through your distributor, which is usually faster or you can wait until Monday and RAM GUY will deal with this here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo_x Posted March 20, 2009 Author Share Posted March 20, 2009 Hello All, This is a follow up to what happened in : http://www.asktheramguy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76075 [i have Windows Vista X64 with all patches and SP1] Well, I've now received a new kit after the RMA of the faulty set. I've been testing this for a while now, and still getting no joy with the spontaneous freezups when playing heavy duty games etc. Each stick has been memtested on its own in the orange slot closest to the cpu, and yielded 8 passes without any errors (previously one stick was constantly failing during the 6th pass with the old pair) : O | | | | ^ ^ | | |____|__________ Orange slots O = cpu | = ram slot Here are the settings I was using for testing individual sticks Ai OVerclocking Tuner = Manual CPU Ratio Setting = 8.5 FSB Frequency = 333 PCIE Frequency = 100 FSB Strap to North Bridge = 333 DRAM Frequency = DDR3-1333MHz Dram CLK Skew on Channel A1 = Auto Dram CLK Skew on Channel A2 = Auto Dram CLK Skew on Channel B1 = Auto Dram CLK Skew on Channel B2 = Auto Dram TIming Control = Manual Primary Information CAS# Latency = 9 DRAM Clocks DRAM RAS# to CAS #Delay = 9 DRAM Clocks DRAM RAS# Precharge = 9 DRAM Clocks DRAM RAS# Activate to Precharge = 24 DRAM Clocks RAS# to RAS# Delay = Auto Row Refresh Cycle Time = Auto Write Recovery Time = Auto Read to Precharge Time = Auto Secondary Information Read to Write Delay (S/D) = Auto Write to Read Delay (S) = Auto Write to Read Delay (D) = Auto Read to Read Delay (S) = Auto Read to Read Delay (D) = Auto Write to Write Delay (S) = Auto Write to Write Delay (D) = Auto Third Information WRITE to PRE delay = Auto READ to PRE delay = Auto PRE to PRE delay = Auto ALL PRE to ACT delay = Auto ALL PRE to RED Delay = Auto DRAM Static Read Control = Auto DRAM Dynamic Write Control = Auto DRAM Read Training = Auto DRAM Write Training = Auto MEM. OC Charger = Auto Ai Clock Twister = Auto Ai Transaction Booster = Auto Voltages CPU Voltage = Auto CPU GTL Voltage Reference(0/2) = Auto CPU GTL Voltage Reference(1/3) = Auto CPU PLL Voltage = Auto FSB Termination Voltage = Auto DRAM Voltage = 1.6v NB Voltage = Auto NB GTL Reference = Auto SB Voltage = Auto PCIE SATA Voltage = Auto Load-Line Calibration = Auto CPU Spread Spectrum = Disabled PCIE Spread Spectrum = Disabled CPU Clock Skew = Auto NB Clock Skew = Auto CPU Margin Enhancement = Optimized Prime95 for Quad Core processor on blend test (lots of ram tested) for each stick went on for more than 24 hours before Interrupted it. So Vista is happy when I use only one DIMM at a time, I can play games, heavy duty processing etc, no problems. Memtest was failing when I installed two sticks in orange slots. I modified the settings based on some recommendations (other settings same as above): RAS to RAS = 9 Row Refresh Cycle = 82 DRAM STATIC READ = Disabled AI Clock Twister = Light CPU Spread Spectrum = Disabled PCIE Spread Spectrum = Disabled Memtest went on for about 18 hours (see screenshot) before it failed. But I only tested this once. I am not sure what it means to get failures after 18 hours/22 passes. When I start prime95 again in windows, with two DIMMS, it hardly runs for about 15 mins tops and then the screen freezes, and I have to hard reboot the machine. Freezes in games. Any recommendations on what I should do? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo_x Posted March 20, 2009 Author Share Posted March 20, 2009 As suggested by RAM GUY in the other thread http://www.asktheramguy.com/forums/showpost.php?p=394630&postcount=3 "Should not be a problem with your configuration and just make sure that you load setup defaults and then I would set the memory Voltage to 1.7 Volts and set the memory frequency at DDR1333 and set the timings to Cas 9-9-9-24 2T Command Rate and if it is still not stable move the modules to slots 2-4 and go through loading setup defaults and setting the settings." I just reset everything to auto, set suggested timings, bumped up the voltage to 1.7. Memtested again and had millions of errors in the first 2 mins. EDIT: Switched slots (now using both black slots instead of both orange slots) Millions of errors after the first 7 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsair Employee RAM GUY Posted March 20, 2009 Corsair Employee Share Posted March 20, 2009 Let's get them replaced, please use the On Line RMA Request Form and we will be happy to replace them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo_x Posted March 20, 2009 Author Share Posted March 20, 2009 Hi Ram Guy, Did you read my message above http://www.asktheramguy.com/forums/showpost.php?p=394807&postcount=13 - I memtested the ram using custom settings and they operated for 22 passes before errors started coming up (this was in dual channel mode, and in orange slots). Is this why you are asking me to RMA them? OR I used your recommended settings with voltage 1.7 and had errors within minutes of starting memtest. Is there something wrong with the RAM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekT Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 You may have thermal issues with the modules heating up and then producing errors. If that is not the case then the issue is very likely CPU memory controller related. Possibly the Northbridge (Motherboard) even though it is now a functional conduit rather than a memory controller may be at issue. In this situation, I doubt that the issue is the memory. To be certain, you can test the modules in a known working system or you can test the modules singly to see if they produce errors. If I was in your situation I would be frustrated enough by now to RMA both CPU and Motherboard. Hi Ram Guy, Did you read my message above http://www.asktheramguy.com/forums/showpost.php?p=394807&postcount=13 - I memtested the ram using custom settings and they operated for 22 passes before errors started coming up (this was in dual channel mode, and in orange slots). Is this why you are asking me to RMA them? OR I used your recommended settings with voltage 1.7 and had errors within minutes of starting memtest. Is there something wrong with the RAM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo_x Posted March 20, 2009 Author Share Posted March 20, 2009 I'm not frustrated - I am extremely frustrated. How did you determine it is the CPU or Motherboard which is faulty? Can you please elaborate for each case (if you have time, so that I may better understand the issue and ask the vendors for a refund/rma etc). How do I prove that it is either the CPU or the motherboard causing these issues? With the previous kit of the same model, it was failing in the 6th run rather than the 2-3 runs support staff recommend here. The 22 successful passes were done within 18 hours (dual channel) before the failure occurred. I did test the each modules on its' own, but for 8 passes. No errors there - then again, it wasn't a stress test like above, and tests completed within a few hours. Lets say the memory modules were heating up. From a cold boot, cold ram, going into vista, then doing the prime95 thingy shouldn't freeze the machine in 15 minutes. Whereas individually, one module was tested for 24 hours (I stopped it) on prime95, and other one was tested for 17 hours (I stopped it). So I don't know if the memory is overheating. Still, I don't understand why the RAM is so finicky when it comes to increasing the RAM voltage - works on 1.6, fails consistently on 1.7 . The sticker on the RAM shows 1.6 as well, but I've read that these modules can be safely raised to 1.8. Is there some safe setting I can use in my bios? I just want to run this ram at the highest possible frequency/bandwidth and not sacrificing on the speed. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekT Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 I'm not frustrated - I am extremely frustrated. How did you determine it is the CPU or Motherboard which is faulty? Can you please elaborate for each case (if you have time, so that I may better understand the issue and ask the vendors for a refund/rma etc). How do I prove that it is either the CPU or the motherboard causing these issues? With the previous kit of the same model, it was failing in the 6th run rather than the 2-3 runs support staff recommend here. The 22 successful passes were done within 18 hours (dual channel) before the failure occurred. I did test the each modules on its' own, but for 8 passes. No errors there - then again, it wasn't a stress test like above, and tests completed within a few hours. RAM is passive, either it works or it doesn't work. Either it passes or it fails. For it to pass long periods and fail in between is indicative of issues external to the memory. This model of board and your BIOS is known to work correctly together so we can remove and isolate the issue being the BIOS. Now the issue is in the data stream. CPU <--> Memory Controller <--> Memory Your testing has isolated the memory. There's just no way that memory can behave in the described testing and have the issue be the memory. Test it out in another board that is known to have a working CPU and you will see that the memory passes. So, you are left with two possibilities, being the motherboard Northbridge (Memory Controller) or the CPU. Another possibility can be the video card but this is not very likely. Lets say the memory modules were heating up. From a cold boot, cold ram, going into vista, then doing the prime95 thingy shouldn't freeze the machine in 15 minutes. Whereas individually, one module was tested for 24 hours (I stopped it) on prime95, and other one was tested for 17 hours (I stopped it). So I don't know if the memory is overheating. Still, I don't understand why the RAM is so finicky when it comes to increasing the RAM voltage - works on 1.6, fails consistently on 1.7 . The sticker on the RAM shows 1.6 as well, but I've read that these modules can be safely raised to 1.8. Is there some safe setting I can use in my bios? I just want to run this ram at the highest possible frequency/bandwidth and not sacrificing on the speed. You can try setting the memory controller to 800Mhz and the memory to 800Mhz. I would RMA the board and CPU personally. At any rate, if you continue to see this as a memory issue, then you need to test the memory on a known working systems. This will allow you to isolate the memory (and your view) and move on to where the issue truly is very likely to be found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo_x Posted March 23, 2009 Author Share Posted March 23, 2009 Hello, Just wanted to let you know that I've had some success with various settings/tweaking I've done to the bios (yes I am very persistent). With these settings, I've done 12+ hours of Prime 95 Quadcore/x64 edition, with Blend tests. I've done 3 passes of memtest with dual channel (will do more in the future). I have nooooo idea which setting made the difference. Might have been the northbridge voltage. GTA IV (a very badly coded but power hungry game) was constantly freezing my machine after 1/2 an hour to 45 mins. Now I can play for more than 2 hours. Here are the settings (after I did reset bios to default settings): Bios Information: Version: 1702 AI Tweaker: Ai OVerclocking Tuner = Manual CPU Ratio Setting = AUTO FSB Frequency = 333 PCIE Frequency = 100 FSB Strap to North Bridge = 333 DRAM Frequency = DDR3-1333MHz Dram CLK Skew on Channel A1 = Auto Dram CLK Skew on Channel A2 = Auto Dram CLK Skew on Channel B1 = Auto Dram CLK Skew on Channel B2 = Auto Dram TIming Control = Manual Primary Information CAS# Latency = 9 DRAM Clocks DRAM RAS# to CAS #Delay = 9 DRAM Clocks DRAM RAS# Precharge = 9 DRAM Clocks DRAM RAS# Activate to Precharge = 24 DRAM Clocks RAS# to RAS# Delay = 9 Row Refresh Cycle Time = 88 Write Recovery Time = Auto Read to Precharge Time = Auto Secondary Information Read to Write Delay (S/D) = Auto Write to Read Delay (S) = Auto Write to Read Delay (D) = Auto Read to Read Delay (S) = Auto Read to Read Delay (D) = Auto Write to Write Delay (S) = Auto Write to Write Delay (D) = Auto Third Information WRITE to PRE delay = Auto READ to PRE delay = Auto PRE to PRE delay = Auto ALL PRE to ACT delay = Auto ALL PRE to RED Delay = Auto DRAM Static Read Control = DISABLED DRAM Dynamic Write Control = DISABLED DRAM Read Training = DISABLED DRAM Write Training = DISABLED MEM. OC Charger = DISABLED Ai Clock Twister = LIGHT Ai Transaction Booster = Auto Voltages CPU Voltage = Auto CPU GTL Voltage Reference(0/2) = Auto CPU GTL Voltage Reference(1/3) = Auto CPU PLL Voltage = Auto FSB Termination Voltage = Auto DRAM Voltage = 1.6v NB Voltage = 1.20v NB GTL Reference = Auto SB Voltage = Auto PCIE SATA Voltage = Auto Load-Line Calibration = Auto CPU Spread Spectrum = Disabled PCIE Spread Spectrum = Disabled CPU Clock Skew = Auto NB Clock Skew = Auto CPU Margin Enhancement = Optimized Legacy USB Support = OFF I've disabled unecessary things like firewire, 2nd Marvel network connection etc, in addition to that intel express backup thingy, and that quick bootup option when starting up the PC (white screen that gives you various bootup options, can't remember what the option is in bios). I don't know if these settings gimp the performance a lot, but I will be doing some benchmarking and making some tweaks - guys if you have any recommendations on what difference (if any) will the settings make (e.g. if I do enable static read) , I would really appreciate it. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekT Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 I have nooooo idea which setting made the difference. Might have been the northbridge voltage. Very likely. Give this a try. Be sure to document your previous settings. :): CAS# Latency = 9 DRAM Clocks DRAM RAS# to CAS #Delay = 9 DRAM Clocks DRAM RAS# Precharge = 9 DRAM Clocks DRAM RAS# Activate to Precharge = 20 DRAM Clocks Row Refresh Cycle Time = 66 DRAM Static Read Control = Enabled Ai Clock Twister = LIGHT Ai Transaction Booster = Enabled Boost Level = 2 Voltages DRAM Voltage = 1.7v NB Voltage = 1.22v NB GTL Reference = .67x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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