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  #1  
Old 01-21-2019, 02:39 PM
Daxterbeer Daxterbeer is offline
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Idea Why is the White version of LL different from black version?

Not to be racist, but the white version of the LL fans have a superior RPM, CFM and static pressure compared to the black version. Should Corsair overhaul their original black LLs to be on par with the new white ones? It would look awkward to have white frame fans with a black build.

Last edited by Daxterbeer; 01-27-2019 at 07:59 PM.
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  #2  
Old 01-30-2019, 06:09 PM
McGuinty McGuinty is offline
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Default Definitely True

I thought this was a job. I just saw the specs for the white edition and called their support. They state the white edition, though the same price is a better fan. It is used in their special edition builds.

Looks like I'll be returning all of my LL120s. Definitely not pleased about this.
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  #3  
Old 01-30-2019, 06:13 PM
c-attack c-attack is offline
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It's only a better fan if you intend to run them faster and actually need more airflow. If you are going to run them at the same 1000 rpm as your current LL, then the results are the same.
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  #4  
Old 01-31-2019, 04:01 PM
McGuinty McGuinty is offline
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So this is for a new build where I'll be running two RTX 2080s, an i9-9900K and the Hydro Series H150i Pro RGB. The fans that come with the H150i have a CFM of only 47.3 and max fan speed of 1600RPM. I find this quite underwhelming for a 360mm AIO.

I'm looking to move to 3x120mm Corsair LL Series fans, as after speaking with Corsair Support yesterday, the white edition fans are for their current iteration of "special edition" cooling systems. Though the price is the same, there is a substantial difference in specs. between the black and white versions of the fans.

Additionally, though the H150i is primarily meant to keep the CPU cooled, as the air from the case will be passing through it and my rear exhaust, I want to make sure the RTX 2080s don't heat soak the CPU due to the added ambient temps they can generate. Upping the CFM and RPMs should help with this.

I know the High Performance edition ML fans would be the ideal pairing due to the mag lev, RPM and CFM ratings, but I'm looking for a balance of both performance and aesthetics, which is why I'm looking to run the LL series fans.

I'm just listing out the spec breakdowns below for the two LL 120mm versions for anyone that comes across this and has similar questions. I don't intend to do a ton of overclocking or benchmark chasing, just the occasional game night, or video rendering/encoding/batch photo processing. I'm guessing I'll be good running the white editions, seeing as how their specs are ~33%(CFM) and ~46%(RPM) better than the stock ML fans that come on the H150i.

Black Edition: (~$34.00 per/~$100 3 pack kit)

Make: Corsair
Model: LL Series CO-9050071-WW (3 Pack Model: CO-9050072-WW)
Size: 120mm
PWM: YES
RGB: YES (16)
Fan Speeds: 600RPM - 1500RPM +/- 10%
Air Flow: 43.25 CFM
Noise: 24.8 dBA

White Edition: (~$34.00 per/~$100 3 pack kit)

Make: Corsair
Model: LL Series CO-9050091-WW (3 Pack Model: CO-9050092-WW)
Size: 120mm
PWM: YES
RGB: YES (16)
Fan Speeds: 360RPM - 2200RPM +/- 10%
Air Flow: 63 CFM
Noise: 36 dBA


Finally, I'm listing out the build components in the event anyone sees any potential bottlenecks or things I'm not thinking about that could effect the overall cooling/efficiency and lifespan of the system.

System specs for the build:

OS: Windows 10 Pro (x64)
CASE: Corsair Obsidian 800D (Only thing coming over from original system)
CPU: Intel i9-9900K
MOBO: MSI MEG Z390 GODLIKE
RAM: 64 GB DDR4 2666 (4x16GB) Corsair Vengance RGB Pro
VIDEO: 2 EVGA RTX 2080 XC GAMING (w/ 4 slot EVGA NVLink Bridge)
MONTR: 3 Acer Predator XB271HK 27" 4K
SSDs: 3 Samsung 970 EVO 500GB - NVMe PCIe M.2 2280 SSD
HHDs: 2 Western Digital Ultrastar 8TB DC HC320 in (RAID 1)
PWR: Corsair HX1200i
AIO: Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro RGB
FANS 1: 2 140mm LL Series (1 in from bottom/1 out top rear)
FANS 2: 3 120mm LL Series (Replace H150i stock fans in Push/Exhaust config) (Top of case mount)
FANS 3: 1 140mm ML Pro Series ( 4x Internal HDD compartment)

Anyone have any thoughts?

Last edited by McGuinty; 01-31-2019 at 04:13 PM.
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  #5  
Old 01-31-2019, 06:23 PM
Daxterbeer Daxterbeer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McGuinty View Post
So this is for a new build where I'll be running two RTX 2080s, an i9-9900K and the Hydro Series H150i Pro RGB. The fans that come with the H150i have a CFM of only 47.3 and max fan speed of 1600RPM. I find this quite underwhelming for a 360mm AIO.

I'm looking to move to 3x120mm Corsair LL Series fans, as after speaking with Corsair Support yesterday, the white edition fans are for their current iteration of "special edition" cooling systems. Though the price is the same, there is a substantial difference in specs. between the black and white versions of the fans.

Additionally, though the H150i is primarily meant to keep the CPU cooled, as the air from the case will be passing through it and my rear exhaust, I want to make sure the RTX 2080s don't heat soak the CPU due to the added ambient temps they can generate. Upping the CFM and RPMs should help with this.

I know the High Performance edition ML fans would be the ideal pairing due to the mag lev, RPM and CFM ratings, but I'm looking for a balance of both performance and aesthetics, which is why I'm looking to run the LL series fans.

I'm just listing out the spec breakdowns below for the two LL 120mm versions for anyone that comes across this and has similar questions. I don't intend to do a ton of overclocking or benchmark chasing, just the occasional game night, or video rendering/encoding/batch photo processing. I'm guessing I'll be good running the white editions, seeing as how their specs are ~33%(CFM) and ~46%(RPM) better than the stock ML fans that come on the H150i.

Black Edition: (~$34.00 per/~$100 3 pack kit)

Make: Corsair
Model: LL Series CO-9050071-WW (3 Pack Model: CO-9050072-WW)
Size: 120mm
PWM: YES
RGB: YES (16)
Fan Speeds: 600RPM - 1500RPM +/- 10%
Air Flow: 43.25 CFM
Noise: 24.8 dBA

White Edition: (~$34.00 per/~$100 3 pack kit)

Make: Corsair
Model: LL Series CO-9050091-WW (3 Pack Model: CO-9050092-WW)
Size: 120mm
PWM: YES
RGB: YES (16)
Fan Speeds: 360RPM - 2200RPM +/- 10%
Air Flow: 63 CFM
Noise: 36 dBA


Finally, I'm listing out the build components in the event anyone sees any potential bottlenecks or things I'm not thinking about that could effect the overall cooling/efficiency and lifespan of the system.

System specs for the build:

OS: Windows 10 Pro (x64)
CASE: Corsair Obsidian 800D (Only thing coming over from original system)
CPU: Intel i9-9900K
MOBO: MSI MEG Z390 GODLIKE
RAM: 64 GB DDR4 2666 (4x16GB) Corsair Vengance RGB Pro
VIDEO: 2 EVGA RTX 2080 XC GAMING (w/ 4 slot EVGA NVLink Bridge)
MONTR: 3 Acer Predator XB271HK 27" 4K
SSDs: 3 Samsung 970 EVO 500GB - NVMe PCIe M.2 2280 SSD
HHDs: 2 Western Digital Ultrastar 8TB DC HC320 in (RAID 1)
PWR: Corsair HX1200i
AIO: Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro RGB
FANS 1: 2 140mm LL Series (1 in from bottom/1 out top rear)
FANS 2: 3 120mm LL Series (Replace H150i stock fans in Push/Exhaust config) (Top of case mount)
FANS 3: 1 140mm ML Pro Series ( 4x Internal HDD compartment)

Anyone have any thoughts?



Aside from CFM rating, the static pressure difference is massive. I am not happy that AIO fans only list their CFM and RPM rating, but not their static pressure rating. The original black LLs have a low CFM and a static pressure of about 1.4. The NEW white ones have a shocking 60+ CFM and a static pressure rating that puts them above the HD120s.

Below is a list of fans. The ones near the top have a high CFM and static pressure rating along with RPM.
In terms of fan performance hierarchy, the best PMW fans I know from Corsair are:
  • ML Pro Series (Includes LED Counterparts)
  • LL RGB White Edition
  • HD RGB
  • ML Pro RGB
  • LL FGB Black

The rank is weird how the Maglevs are high up with static pressure of 4.2mm and a CFM of 75. The upsetting part is how the ML RGB versions have a CFM of 47 and static pressure of 1.7mm and lower RPM than its LED version. It costs more money and is crippled and compared to their single-color version. This may be another topic, but fans using the same bearings and fan blade designs should have the RPM ranges for same specs. The specs RGB version of ML should be equal to that of LED versions with the difference being the colors.


The coolest idea Corsair could have is if Corsair made a fan combining the motor of a LED Maglev (the highest performance one) and have the LEDs of a HD120 or LL(the most beautiful ones depending if you want more addressable zones of 2 loops to customize ). We would have the ultimate fan and colors without compromising.
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  #6  
Old 01-31-2019, 06:53 PM
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On the ML fans, they RGB fans are equivalent to the ML "Classic" fans at the same RPMs. And ... the new Platinum coolers come with ML-RGB that have the same speeds as the ML-Classic ... and perform similarly.

Most of what you are seeing is a function of the different fan speeds. The curves for CFM and SP aren't linear.
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  #7  
Old 01-31-2019, 08:08 PM
c-attack c-attack is offline
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Again, this only matters if you intend to run them at that 1800-2200 rpm speed. The fan blade is the same. At xxx rpm, both white and black fans move exactly the same amount of air and have the same characteristics.

Static pressure is the amount of negative pressure required to reduce a fan's speed from XXX rpm to zero. As such, it is entirely RPM dependent. Most fan manufacturers list the static pressure at the maximum RPM, but that value will decrease with a decrease in speed. Super wonder fan with its 4.0 mm rating at 2000 rpm, will have a value of 0.30 something at 500 rpm. The white version and black version will have the same static pressure value at the same RPM. The white only exceeds it when it goes beyond the RPM limit of the black fan. At 1600+ rpm, static pressure is no longer very relevant. Your fan won't be coming to a stop because the radiator is too thick. The usual example I give is this powerful little Noiseblocker fan I have with a static pressure rating of 2.4 mm H20. That beats all the lower speed HD/LL/ML-RGB fans. Of course, it's a 40x40mm fan and only moves 9 cfm at 4000 rpm. Not exactly what you want on your radiator, but there is your static pressure. Static pressure is a function of speed. Higher speed, higher static pressure, regardless of suitability for the task at hand.

The amount of airflow you put across the radiator or through an opening is still the determining factor in what makes Fan A better than Fan B. An increase in 20 cfm through the radiator may not result in any temperature change at all if that is not the limiting factor. At best, you might see 1-2C difference in CPU temp when running the 8 core at maximum load for an extended duration. If that is worth it to you, then go for it or choose the ML120 Pro series or something else that goes even higher. However, as you mentioned, there are other elements to the choice and most people have 1C in CPU temp to spare.

Generally speaking wider, flatter blades are more effective when faced with resistance, like a radiator or stack of drives. The 9-11 blade, more open style fan like the HD or LL will move more air than the flatter style when not restricted. So if you want to be tedious, ML fans might move slightly more air through your H150i, but slightly less through the normal case fan mounts. You likely do not want to mix and match. Once again, giving up 1C on the coolant temp doesn't sound like too hard a sacrifice.

The point of buying a larger radiator like a 280, 360 or larger is you don't need to fuss about the fan speed like you do with a single panel 120mm. If you put a slow 800 rpm fan on a 120mm radiator working with a high watt source like a GPU, you will see noticeable temp changes across fan speeds. As the radiators get bigger, the fan speed becomes less important. If I use a 720mm radiator, I can set the fans at minimum at likely outperform a 360 with a set of blaster fans. Surface area still matters more. From my testing, you need to get close to the 300W mark on a 280 or 360 before differences between the LL/HD/ML become visible. While your 9900K is a heavier draw than average, it is well short of of that mark.
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  #8  
Old 02-01-2019, 12:08 PM
telias82 telias82 is offline
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the issue i had with the white ones is that they didnt sell them in 140mm :(

i had purchased them in white, but want my top fans to be 140mm.
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  #9  
Old 02-05-2019, 07:34 PM
Daxterbeer Daxterbeer is offline
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If they could give us the new fans with the old frames, I would buy 10.
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