Suggestions, Comments, Questions and HX PSU not really silent (ultra quiet? -LOL!-)

Hi there,

here are my comments, suggestions, questions and some complaints :biggrin: :roll:

- All solid capacitor design (like with Gigabyte motherboards/graphic boards/video cards and now new ASUS motherboards, too..)

Why not? Further improve/increase MTBF/Lifetime of the PSU and PSU pcb.. (Better than electrolytic capacitors..)

(http://ultradurable.gigabyte.com.tw/en/ultradurable-web-1.html )

- Minimum current/amps needed, maximum is given..(I want to know the min. load requirement) :confused:

- Max combined amps of 3.3V and 5V? :confused:

- Max combined amps/power if all connected and used (3.3V, 5V and 12V rails combined)?! :confused:

- 2 or 4 PCIe connectors? (Ready for 2x Geforce 8800 GTX?) :confused:

- What is the standby power and off power usage/consumption of the HX PSUs? :confused:

- Not really a quiet (fan).. :sigh!: :evil: :!:

For me and much/many other people it is simple not acceptable, that the HX PSU series is that loud/noisy.

It's too loud/noisy for me and if you want an silent PC with only whisper or no noise, you simply can't choose and buy your HX series PSUs, which is really bad and should be changed.. I'm sad about this fact.. :(:

I suggest you and would prefer a new silent/ultra-silent model/variant of the HX series, maybe e.g. HX620-S or HX620-US (for silent and ultrasilent)

This is simple possible, you only need another better fan, like the very good, well known, recognized and approved Papst 120mm 4412 F/2GLL fan or Noiseblocker 120mm NB-UltraSilentFan SX1 Rev. 1.2 fan with 6 years warranty, which would perfect fit with your 5 years warranty for your PSUs! :)

(http://www.noiseblocker.de/en/produkt_luefter_nb-ultrasilentfan-sx1.php )

Both fans should be mounted decoupled into the PSU and speed reduced to 8V or 9V (instead of 12V) to get even more silence out of it..

(Maybe temp. controlled with low rpm)

Only with such ultra-low noise and silent fans, your PSUs would be powerful, stable, reliable, great

AND -VERY IMPORTANT- silencer/silent PC freaks ready/compliant..! :p:

Please make that possible, so we don't must mod the HX PSUs and lost our warranty.. -.- :[pouts:

The mentioned Papst or Noiseblocker fan is strong enough and really much more silent with much less noise! (produces nearly/almost no noise..)

E.g. I would -LOVE- to buy an HX620 PSU, because its great specifications, ratings and tests and don't forget the nice 5 year warranty, but not with this noisy and loud fan..! :/ :(:

(From your product page:

-Ultra quiet 120mm double ball-bearing fan delivers excellent airflow at an exceptionally low noise level by varying the RPM in response to temperature.

That simply is NOT true..!)

(Replace the fan with one of my suggestions and adjust the fan speed settings and temp. measurement, then the claim (and I mean here your claim!) will become true/reality..!)

Btw. the Noiseblocker SX1 fans are rated for an MTBF/lifetime > 100,000 hours at 45°C!

Failure rate is < 0,01 % (on 100,000 units per year)

Special features are overheat protection and auto restart function.

- On your next PSU model(s) I suggest you to power them with at least 24A better 28A or 30A on an single 12V rail..! ;):

- Further I suggest you to get the 80plus logo/certification (Energie Efficiency) (which means quality..!) (http://www.80plus.org ) ;):

- Combined power of 3.3V and 5V rails should be at least 170W, better 180-200W.. (on highest/best rated PSU model..) ;):

A good example would be the new Enermax Infiniti PSU with 720W. (All is good there, but the combined power..)

(http://www.enermax.com, http://www.enermax.com/english/product_Display1.asp?PrID=66 )

(I hope it is ok to post it here, because it's an suggestion and comparison to look at and not an ad for them!

And I bet you're strong enough to accept that/it and you can beat your competition..!) :p: :D: :roll: :cool:

And finally an suggestion to your support department, it is only possible to call the toll-free number within the USA, but you have customers from all over the world in many countries and continents..

What about an 00800 toll-free number (00 for international instead of 0800), which is/whould be available for free all over the world, like from EU, too! Thx. :D:

I hope you can consider/take into account these suggestions and comments.

It would be great if you integrate and realize them in an upcoming product/model for your PSUs or an modified/variant model of your current PSUs..

Please forward and discuss this with your Corsair team and development team and your managemant/executive board.

(I know your PSUs are developed by your team and manufactured at Seasonic and are an variant of their models.. ;): )

Thanks in advance! :sunglasse

best regards,

PSchuetz

Hi there,

first, I don't want to offend/diss Corsair or make trouble.

I only want to help improve the PSUs from Corsair! :!: ;):

I have asked Power Guy to comment on your post, but some of the things you have posted seem to be un-realistic and or are suspicious.

Sorry, but there is nothing unrealistic and so on.

I don't know whether you are be well versed, but it seems not..sorry.

For example,

 

Our PSU's are some of quietest designs available and I have never had any one complain they are to loud unless they has a bad fan or some other problem.

If you have a problem with your fan call our Tech support and we will be happy to help you get this solved.

Yes, maybe, but that means nothing..

Fact is, it isn't silent, maybe it is a quiete design, but need much improvement and I want to help you and make suggestions and comments about this..!

And why people should complain about that on you or such, if they think that will not help or you won't change your minds on that and improve the design..?!

I think not much people out there knows, how to build a perfect silent pc, that's what silent pc freaks are and what they want and what the term "silencers' is and means..

Don't be "bigoted/blinkered/contracted", be open minded and accept that your claim and advertising "ultra-quiet" or "very quiet" is not completely true.

I don't want to contact tech support, or does he replace and mod for me the HX620 with an better, much more quieter fan, which I mentioned..?! :laughing: ;):

Maybe most people are not that ambitious/demanding.. :roll:

http://www.houseofhelp.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2356&stc=1&d=1169162797

Yes, as you can see, it isn't really quiet or even ultra-quiet!

All above 25 dBA isn't quiet anymore..:!:

(Upto 50% load it is ok..)

There is no PSU maker that I know of at this time who is publishing Min. power requirements.

Sorry, but where is the problem on this?

Lol, but means this, Corsair should follow this decision..?! :eek:

I think it is very bad, that almost noone does publishing min. power requirements, and because of this fact I ask you here in this forum for these.

I thought you will get that answer here..

I think Corsair want to shine out of the market and don't follow wrong decisions of other PSU makers, not to publish the min. power requirements, because these are important to know.. :sigh!:

And the combined power limitations are on every label.

http://www.houseofhelp.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2355&stc=1&d=1169162149

Yes, but I ask for amps, I want to know the combined amps.

Maximum amps for the 12V combined rails are 50A, but what is about 3.3V and 5V combined?

And what is about 3.3V, 5V and all 12V rails combined..?!

At this time these PSU are not qualified for Quad 8800 GTX cards but we have tesed them in this configuration and will run with out problems, if you want to try that call our customer service and see if they can help you get the extra cable you need. 888-222-4346 Ext "0"

Thanks, but no need, this was only a question.. ;): :p:

Standby power consumption for any PSU is "0" in stand alone, the system configuration will determine this.

Sorry, lol, but are you joking?!

This is not the answer I want to hear.

Who uses an PSU as standalone without an system?! ^^ :confused: :sigh!:

Power off, is NOT always really power off and the PSU still consumes power..!

There are some PSUs out there, which do this..

And standby power consumption have to been measured by identical systems with different PSUs..

Some PSUs consume too much in this mode (standby)!

I don't know any really good test comparison webpages in english language for PSUs.

I mean here independent testing and not sponsored by Corsair or such.. :!: :p: :):

Here an german test, which you can see what I mean with standby power:

http://www.dirkvader.de/page/Silverstone_ST75F/index.html

I mean this chart here:

hxxp://xxx.dirkvader.de/page/Silverstone_ST75F/leistungsaufnahme.gif

(Not hotlinked because of bandwith stealing..)

Another good and great german review webpage for PSUs is here:

http://www.hartware.de/review.html#Geh%E4use,%20Netzteile,%20Mods

(They only tests/review PSUs which have a chance to be silent/ultra-silent compliant, all others are not tested and I'm not sure, whether the Corsair HX series fit into that or not..)

But a fan which is specified at 2200 rpm with 39 dBA doesn't seem to have a chance and Adda isn't really known for real silent and quiet fans..

Papst and Noiseblocker among others are known for this!

They are specified for 1200 rpm max. and 18 dBA and lower..!

Please think about this..

You are the first person I have ever heard complain about how loud our PSU is. Ever. Even Silent PC Review thinks it's one of the best balanced noise/power units on the market right now.

 

I don't know if you just got a bad unit or a bad fan or what, but our PSU is very, very quiet, and I've never actually heard the fan spin up to a high volume without some insane load placed on it, either artificially from a load tester or under torture testing with two 8800GTXs and a quad core CPU overclocked to ~4 GHz with a bunch of hard drives attached.

Sorry, you're wrong, they say that you're wrong on your claim and advertising to say it is ultra-quiet or very quiet.

22 dBA is ok, but even that isn't true silent/ultra-silent. (True silent/ultra-silent is below 18dBA..:!:)

But all above 25 dBA and you will get 30 dBA and more out of an Corsair HX series PSU and full load, isn't very quiet anymore..!

You're using simply the wrong fan for this, sorry but that's the truth, nothing else..:!:

See here:

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article692-page5.html

Beyond 300W, the fan speed and noise climbed fairly quickly, as expected from Corsair's own graphs, ..., even though it is too loud to be considered very quiet.

Too loud, you really can't assume to get very or ultra quiet PSU with an Adda fan, which is specified for max 2200 rpm with 39 dBA..

As I already wrote above and repeat and repeat again and again, you need another better, more well known for true and really silent/ultra-silent operation 120mm fan, which are specified at about max. 1000 rpm and 18dbA.

I don't even say you should replace all your fans in the HX PSU series, but you could release an alternative/different/modified/variant model of the HX PSU series, with another better fan..! :!: ;): :p: :biggrin:

That is soo simple!

You buy that fan, Papst or Noiseblocker (Noiseblocker have 6 year warranty and over 100,000 hours of MTBF at 45°C), replace the Adda fan and do internal testings, whether these fans are good enough and powerful enough to keep the temps in the PSU low and not too high.

Come on, you use special industrial 105°C rated capacitors, so you don't have to worry that much on temps.. :cool: ;): :D:

You must have the world's best hearing!

Nope, I'm only a silent PC freak, I'm only demanding, I only know what I want and what I can demanding :-P :):

I know what is possible..

I want/would help you and I would suggest you to try out my comments and suggestions.

Isn't it worth to do so..?!

You say, you test these with overclocking and bunch of drives, etc.

But what drives?

What kinds of fans do you use for cooling your CPU, case/tower, etc.?

I have set up an PC with all silent design for my brother.

AMD Athlon 64 3800+ X2 AM2 with an fan and heatsink which are ultra-silent, you don't hear anythink if you power up the PC..!

A low noise hdd Samsung SP2504C 250GB SATA2.

Nvidia Geforce MSI 7900 GTO, which is basically the same as an 7900 GTX, with some lower graphic ram speed, but the same cooler/fan/heatsink..

Ultra-silent, you hear nothing, only whispering if you apply your ears beneath the card..

I know what about I'm speaking..

I use the mentioned Noiseblocker fans as case/tower cooling fans.

2x SX1, but not at full speed, I use pontentiometer to reduce the rpm of the fans to 50%..

PC is perfectly stable and temps are cool..

CPU temps are cool and stable, the CPU fan is an Arctic Cooling Freezer 64 Pro (http://www.arctic-cooling.de/cpu2.php?idx=80&disc=) (english), which I reduce the rpm with an potentiometer to about 50-65%..

As for the all solid-state capacitor design, that's a great idea, and I'll look into it for our next-gen PSU! We're always working in new designs and tips, but we have to walk the line between price and performance, too much concern for one means some people complain about the other!

Thanks, but if it is too expensive, you could use "only" for the most important capacitors solid-state ones and for the other the "old" way..

And what is about the 80plus logo?! :confused: :D:

It would be cool, if your PSUs will get in future these, because all we want is energie efficiency from 20-100% load :cool: :p: ;):

Thanks in advance!

best regards,

PSchuetz

First, thanks for your opinions. We do appreciate the feedback.

 

Second, I would appreciate it if you calmed down just a bit. "Ultra-quiet" is a subjective term that does not have an absolute value. What is "ultra-quiet" to you is not "ultra-quiet" to me, and thirty other people may all have different opinions.

 

The fan we are using is not the wrong fan. It was chosen not just for silence, but for a mix of CFM, dBA, and MTBF. With a 5-year warranty on our product, we wanted a fan that would be guaranteed to last that time period. The fan is the most common failure point in any PSU by far. The ADDA fan we use is quite good, and while there are quieter fans out there, they either don't push the CFM we require for our design or don't have the MTBF we need for our warranty.

 

There's also the price point to consider. Fans can get quite expensive, some near $20 US just to be used! When we design a product, we have to determine where the price/performance line needs to be drawn. Yes, we could make this the most amazing 620W PSU in the world, with expensive metals used for heatsinks, an expensive and efficient fan, higher end components rated at some ridiculously high level of power, but we'd never sell any of them because nobody would pay $500 for a 620W PSU.

 

I think for the price, our PSU is the best on the market. I'd put it up against anybody else's PSU. We aren't saying it's completely silent, only that it's very, very quiet. And if you've ever used one in person, you'd agree. You can buy fanless PSUs from other manufacturers, and that's great, but we didn't want to limit ourselves to the design, as a fanless PSU tends to produce heat that doesn't get removed from the case very easily.

 

Again, thanks for your opinions.

FINALLY!!! A reasonable answer and just beat me to it.......(forgot my password....LOL!)

But, here's my perspective from a layman's viewpoint.

I think first the OP'er, or troll if you will, is speaking to a product he's never used nor even witnessed in operation.

Second, your choice of fans to cool the power supply, as you pointed out, is dependent upon many factors, least of which is probably its SPL measurements. While its noise factor in use is a concern, its ability to actually cool the power supply under load is probably of primary concern.

The fans the OP suggested, while probably great case cooling fans in reduced voltage environments, are unfortunately, of poor use for cooling a power supply. Their CFM flows are just too low to most likely adequately cool a power supply trying to output 400W or more in load conditions. The ADDA in your ps are rated at 85CFM @ 2200rpm, a flow rate NONE of his listed fans can come close to. I suppose Corsair should have, in his view, chosen a "quieter" fan with significantly lower flow rates, but this would have significantly jeopardized longevity and durability of the power supplies.

And while it's true the fans mentioned are "quieter" than the ADDA in the Corsair power supplies, in the real world, the fan in the Corsair ps are essentially silent until they reach 300W of output or greater. This is not my own opinion but the product of independent testing by SPCR. Their independent testing of both Corsair ps units, the HX520 and HX620, showed both have a measured SPL (dBA @ 1m) of 22 at outputs of up to 300W, a typical load presented by modern computers these days. Only upon cresting that load does either unit become noiser.....29dBA at 400W and 43dBA @ 500W. Honestly, if one is pulling 500W out of a power supply, there had better be some quite active cooling going on or fried circuitry will follow and rather quickly.

Here are some numbers about some "quiet" fans and their CFM......

His beloved Pabst 4412 F/2GLL:

12V, 24 dBA@1m, 1290 RPM, 54 CFM

(You give up 1/3 of the flow for a few dBA of sound, and this is measured outside of any enclosure blowing freely, so at its most quiet....as all case fans are typically tested!!!)

A Pabst 4412 FGL:

12V, 30 dBA@1m, 1610 RPM, 69 CFM

(A bit closer in CFM but also quite a bit louder.)

Noctua NF-S12-1200: (The only one with close enough flow to be worth looking at):

12V, 25 dBA@1m, 1250 RPM, 63 CFM

Scythe S-Flex SFF21F: (Again, the only Scythe model with enough flow to be worth looking at.....others, while quieter, move too little air)"

12V, 31 dBA@1m, 1590 RPM, 70 CFM

NEXUS REAL SILENT CASE FAN D12SL-12:

12V, 22 dBA@1m, 1080 RPM, 47 CFM

Again, very quiet but terrible flow rate, and even worse at slower speeds.....flow rates probably low enough to ensure overheating of the power supply.

What escapes the OP, I think, is the fact that the "quiet" fans he presents as alternatives are typically measured by blowing with no resistance to their flow, a luxury the fans inside the Corsair, or any power supply, do NOT have. Rather, a power supply cooling fan faces some difficulties such as the heat sinks, PCB's, and all the other componentry between it and the outside of its case. So all the air blowing out of the fan faces a lot of structure that surely creates a lot of turbulence before the air exits its case. That turbulence does indeed create noise, so I find it amazing that both Corsair units are as quiet as they are in use.

Another point is the OP shoves two fans as the pinnacle of quiet while both are anything but that. The quietest case fans around in acceptable availability for retail purchase today are considered to be the Noctua first, then the Nexus, then the Scythe. Pabst, meh.........as was said in SPCR's testing:

Although the ebmPapst and Antec fans are not of the same noise caliber as the top three picks, they are close enough that some users will probably find other reasons to buy them.

 

Don't bother shelling out for the low speed 4412 F/2GLL though... the faster FGL model is just as quiet when undervolted, and sounds smoother to boot.

And as SPCR's review concluded:

The new Corsair PSUs are not only aimed at the power-demanding PC gamer, but also the growing class of quiet PC enthusiasts who also want to be able to run some seriously powerful gear. The HX620W and HX520W deliver clean, ultra-stable power under a wide range of demanding conditions. They also happen to be about the quietest fan-cooled PSUs we've tested to date, matching the best of the Seasonic S12s.

 

The modular sleeved cables ease the challenges of keeping the system tidy and aerodynamic for optimal airflow, which is especially important if you wish to maximize cooling with the slowest of fans for the lowest noise.

 

They seem just about perfect for a quiet-loving power PC user who wants to have his cake but not hear it as well.

 

The final words: Great job, Corsair.

That about sums it all up........

I honestly believe the OP is just ill-informed as to what a cooling fan in a power supply is really required to do and the challenges it faces. A fan cannot be just put in because of noise.....noise generation has to be balanced with flow rates from the fan and internal construction of the power supply. Just because one has a very quiet case fan does not make it suitable to be used as a proper cooling fan for a hostile environment like a power supply.

Either that, or he is just trolling for argument's sake. Hope it's not the latter and he's just close-minded and focused solely on one aspect of one item's performance without any regard to the whole picture.

The above mentioned facts were taken from here:

SPCR's Review of the Corsair HX520 and HX620.

SPCR's Review of quiet 120mm fans.

Hi there,

I'm not arrogant and maybe you got it wrong, but I think another variant/model of the HX series with a more silent fan and other improvements could be more pricey and I bet much people will buy it, nevertheless.

Because the people who buys Corsair stuff, whatever they are, are high-end and enthusiast..

And as I already wrote, you can quote tests or such thinks, but in my opinion there are no english webpages, which tests as strong/accurately/thorough and critical/squeamish as german webpages, like the mentioned.

I don't say you have to replace the fans of the current HX series, because they are simply only "****" and your PSUs are crap..This isn't the fact and simply not true.

And upto 50% workload the noise of your HX series is good and quiet, but above this workload it becomes too noisy and loud and can't be considered silent/quiet/very silent/quiet anymore..! :!: ;):

Maybe only germans think that very quiet isn't that, what the Adda fan with this specification and rating producing.

And maybe you're not reading my posts accurately and thorough enough and get it wrong what I want to tell ya, don't know..

I don't want an passive/fanless PSU, simply an silent one, true silence.

E.g. this one here isn't available in the USA, I think, but it's true an ultra-silent one, but don't other 5 years warranty, "only standard" 3 years..:

http://www.cooltek.de/Cooltek%20500%20Watt%20-%20Real%20Plug%20Power.html

The mix of CFM, dBA, and MTBF is great on the fans I mentioned above, too!

best regards,

PSchuetz

PS: If you think I want only troll, then maybe I should don't reply here anymore, because if someone say I trolling on the forum, but I say the truth, then probably someone isn't be able to take criticism, enough.

A couple of days ago I purchased the Corsair 520HX. From the moment I put it in my case, it started making a faint buzzing/clicking noise. It's not increasing or decreasing, it just remains the same.

To make sure it was coming from my PSU, I got it out of my case to listen to it and I can really hear the buzzing/clicking noise, even from 8 feet away. It's really a pity, because without the buzzing/clicking noise, it would be completely silent.

The question is whether this is normal or there might be something wrong with it. I also checked the sticker on the fan and this did not come loose or anything.

Thanks in advance for the reply.

Faan

A couple of days ago I purchased the Corsair 520HX. From the moment I put it in my case, it started making a faint buzzing/clicking noise. It's not increasing or decreasing, it just remains the same.

 

To make sure it was coming from my PSU, I got it out of my case to listen to it and I can really hear the buzzing/clicking noise, even from 8 feet away. It's really a pity, because without the buzzing/clicking noise, it would be completely silent.

 

The question is whether this is normal or there might be something wrong with it. I also checked the sticker on the fan and this did not come loose or anything.

 

Thanks in advance for the reply.

 

Faan

Please start your own thread in the PSU section. Your post can easily be overlooked at the end of another thread that does not deal with your specific problem.

And as I already wrote, you can quote tests or such thinks, but in my opinion there are no english webpages, which tests as strong/accurately/thorough and critical/squeamish as german webpages, like the mentioned.

Wow, you have tooo much spare time, go do something with your life other than anlyze every flaw this psu has.

Have have the 620 version, and i cant hear it at all, so far its doing better than the mushkin unit i had and i soon hope to hook it up to a brand new 8900

Can you provide a link to these review sites so that we can learn of the testing methodology used.

Hi there,

sure, besides my very own, these are the mentioned webpages:

http://www.dirkvader.de

(http://www.dirkvader.de/page/reviews.html) and

http://www.hartware.de

(http://www.hartware.de/review.html#Geh%E4use,%20Netzteile,%20Mods)

Another webpage which offer special silent hardware and modify existing hardware with full warranty is http://www.ichbinleise.de (see the review awards from the frontpage..http://www.ichbinleise.de/index.php?language=en or/and here: http://www.ichbinleise.de/mr_pages.php?page=t_index&language=en)

This is from the MR Computertechnik GmbH & Co. KG company.

They modded e.g. the Papst 4412 F/2GLL to an special silent variant/version (4412 F/2GLLL ichbinleise edition..) here:

http://www.ichbinleise.de/index.php?cPath=27_55_91 and here:

http://www.ichbinleise.de/product_info.php?cPath=27_55_91&products_id=946&language=en

The best and most silent PSU reviewed by hartware.de is the Cooltek 500W PSU.

Another good PSU review webpage is http://www.planet3dnow.de

(http://www.planet3dnow.de/artikel/hardware/netzteile/netzteil2006/)

There is also an pic of the decoupled 120mm Papst fan inside the Cooltek PSU here..:

http://www.planet3dnow.de/artikel/hardware/netzteile/netzteil2006/mittelklasse/12.shtml

On details for the testing methodology you should contact them.

I have still some questions and curiosity/strangeness of Corsair behavior with their HX PSU series..

best regards,

PSchuetz