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  #1  
Old 01-24-2017, 05:22 PM
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Default 460X RGB with H80i v2

I'm planning a new build using the very nice 460X RGB. I also want to use a Corsair color LED cooler. It seems from what I've read, it's best to have cooler air blowing over the radiators than warm air. So how would I fit in the cooler to make that happen? Are the LED's at the front of the computer attached to the fans or are they separate? What cooler would work best with the 460X RGB? I may do some moderate overclocking and wonder if a single fan H80 color LED is in the works?

EDIT: I was just looking at the specifications for the H100i v2 and I didn't see any information on the type of water pump being used in the system. I have never looked into water cooling systems before so please excuse my ignorance. How do they work?
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Old 01-24-2017, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by 007vsMagua View Post
It seems from what I've read, it's best to have cooler air blowing over the radiators than warm air.
Unfortunately, that little phrase sends a lot of people in the wrong direction. If you had no other concerns besides CPU temperature and a plethora of mounting solutions, that would be fine. In reality, most people are limited by the size of the radiator they want to use and the ability to mount in the case in some logical fashion. Unless you are setting up CPU number crunching machine that will see very high, sustained CPU loads, I prefer a different general rule. If you can dump waste heat out of the case directly, do it. This means using the CPU cooler with the fans set to exhaust out of the case. Most people have plenty of headroom with their CPU temperature management. GPUs, VRMs, memory, and everything else in the case are affected when you dump CPU waste heat into the case. It is rarely critical, but most people are happy to take a global temperature reduction. A lot of this depends on the GPU in the case and how much wattage it uses. What works for every other GPU, may not work with a 980 Ti or something else that big. However, rather than turn this into a technical piece, it is better to consider what options are actually available to you on the 460x. Because of the design and the obvious aesthetic values, there are only a few real mounting placements.

Most people mount the H80i v2/GT in the rear exhaust slot. This is done for the reasons suggested above as well as physical necessity. The entire fan-rad-fan sandwich is huge at 99mm thick. The down side is your coolant temperatures will be affected by GPU waste heat, so some discussion on the GPU model is required.

It will not work for top mount. It might work in the front panel in the top slot. You can use the RGB fans and discard the grey ones that come with it. It would use exterior air as intake and dump most of its heat directly out the top of the case. This is a benefit of removing the 5.25 bays. However, I do not know how much clearance you would have to the memory bank and it may look a bit top heavy with this bulk coming another 75mm into the the case.

An alternative would be to use a 240mm double radiator like the H100i v2 in the front panel as intake on the top two fans. Again, this would preserve the front LED scheme and theoretically much of the heat can be removed via the top panel, rather than dragging it through the entire case. That would be my first choice in cooling for this case. In theory, the H100i v2 fits in the roof as well, however you must use low profile memory and I think it looks a bit top heavy from a visual perspective.

You may want to google around a bit and see some pictures of what others have done. I am not sure I have seen an extra thick radiator like the H80i in the front panel, but there may be one out there.

Last edited by c-attack; 01-24-2017 at 05:52 PM.
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Old 01-24-2017, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c-attack View Post
Unfortunately, that little phrase sends a lot of people in the wrong direction. If you had no other concerns besides CPU temperature and a plethora of mounting solutions, that would be fine. In reality, most people are limited by the size of the radiator they want to use and the ability to mount in the case in some logical fashion. Unless you are setting up CPU number crunching machine that will see very high, sustained CPU loads, I prefer a different general rule. If you can dump waste heat out of the case directly, do it. This means using the CPU cooler with the fans set to exhaust out of the case. Most people have plenty of headroom with their CPU temperature management. GPUs, VRMs, memory, and everything else in the case are affected when you dump CPU waste heat into the case. It is rarely critical, but most people are happy to take a global temperature reduction. A lot of this depends on the GPU in the case and how much wattage it uses. What works for every other GPU, may not work with a 980 Ti or something else that big. However, rather than turn this into a technical piece, it is better to consider what options are actually available to you on the 460x. Because of the design and the obvious aesthetic values, there are only a few real mounting placements.

Most people mount the H80i v2/GT in the rear exhaust slot. This is done for the reasons suggested above as well as physical necessity. The entire fan-rad-fan sandwich is huge at 99mm thick. The down side is your coolant temperatures will be affected by GPU waste heat, so some discussion on the GPU model is required.

It will not work for top mount. It might work in the front panel in the top slot. You can use the RGB fans and discard the grey ones that come with it. It would use exterior air as intake and dump most of its heat directly out the top of the case. This is a benefit of removing the 5.25 bays. However, I do not know how much clearance you would have to the memory bank and it may look a bit top heavy with this bulk coming another 75mm into the the case.

An alternative would be to use a 240mm double radiator like the H100i v2 in the front panel as intake on the top two fans. Again, this would preserve the front LED scheme and theoretically much of the heat can be removed via the top panel, rather than dragging it through the entire case. That would be my first choice in cooling for this case. In theory, the H100i v2 fits in the roof as well, however you must use low profile memory and I think it looks a bit top heavy from a visual perspective.

You may want to google around a bit and see some pictures of what others have done. I am not sure I have seen an extra thick radiator like the H80i in the front panel, but there may be one out there.
Thank you for the awesome reply. It never occurred to me that I would be blowing heat back into the case...don't want that. I'm thinking the H100i v2 should work just fine in the roof. I did edit my original post with another question if you wish to have a look at it.
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Old 01-24-2017, 07:54 PM
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Take a look at the pictures in this thread to get a rough idea of how it will look. I don't think the exhausting the heat from 95W TDP processor into the case will be any sort of problem (Skylake, Kaby Lake, etc). The smart play would be to go low profile memory so you can do either position. If you commit to the fancier LED or tall heat sink modules, that will lock you into the front mount.

As for how the cooler works, I suppose I can give you general basics and then you can pinpoint more specific areas if needed. Air cooler and water coolers work in a similar fashion. With an air tower, the heat is given a conductive path from the CPU through a metal plate, and is then dispersed through some sort of metal tubing and radiator combination, depending on size. The heat is transmitted through the conductive properties of metal and to a lesser extent, air. The "cooling" is the process of conducting heat away from the CPU, rather than simply "blowing air on it". That method of displacement is used by your case fans for moving heat through the case.

A water cooler works in very much the same way. There is a cold plate (usually copper) that makes direct contact with the CPU lid. The heat is conducted from the CPU, through this plate, and into a continuously running stream of water on the other side. Obviously, electronics and water do not mix and the two things never come in contact with each other. This water flow serves as the transport mechanism to carry to heat from the cold plate and CPU to the radiator. While passing through the radiator, the fans blow air across the thin metal fins and this aids the release of heat from the water stream into the air. The water leaves at one temperature from the cold plate and returns cooler after the radiator. It then picks up more heat and repeats the loop. This is more effective than air transmission for several reasons. First, water is much better conductor of energy than air. You can move more heat, more quickly. The other big advantage, as suggested above, is you can transport that heat directly to an exit point in the case. With an air tower, you are still releasing it on top of the motherboard and this may have some influence on the components around the tower.

The other thing to understand is heat flows both ways across any transmission point. Even if your motherboard is supplying 0 volts to your CPU, it will not drop to room temperature. It will become (more or less) the same temperature as the coolant on the other side of the cold plate. As such, you are attempting to control the coolant temperature as a means to controlling your CPU temperature. The coolant temperature will always be your baseline starting point. The lower your baseline, the lower your load CPU temps will be under the same conditions. This can be done simply by lowering room temperature, but also this is the value directly affected by fan speed. The third significant benefit of water cooling is the cooler has a greater capacity to hold a given amount of heat at any one instance, compared to an air tower. You can absorb momentary increases in CPU power without the need to have an instantaneous fan response. With most air towers, you have a few seconds before things start to slide upwards. With medium and large water systems, you can leave the fans on low levels for most tasks, save extended long duration CPU loads like rendering, encoding, stress tests, etc. Even the little tiny H55-like 120mm on my GPU can keep its diode temperature 40 degrees cooler than its original air channeled radiator. You will not see that kind of improvement over an air tower. 5-10C is more common, depending on cooler model and CPU. However, the real improvement is the ability to handle a higher workload for a longer time period, making it the choice for professional systems and overclockers looking to take full advantage of the increased cooling potential.

Last edited by c-attack; 01-25-2017 at 02:29 PM.
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  #5  
Old 01-25-2017, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c-attack View Post
Take a look at the pictures in this thread to get a rough idea of how it will look. I don't think the exhausting the heat from 95W TDP processor into the case will be any sort of problem (Skylake, Kaby Lake, etc). The smart play would be to go low profile memory so you can do either position. If you commit to the fancier LED or tall heat sink modules, that will lock you into the front mount.

As for how the cooler works, I suppose I can give you general basics and then you can pinpoint more specific areas if needed. Air cooler and water coolers work in a similar fashion. With an air tower, the heat is given a conductive path from the CPU through a metal plate, and is then dispersed through some sort of metal tubing and radiator combination, depending on size. The heat is transmitted through the conductive properties of metal and to a lesser extent, air. The "cooling" is the process of conducting heat away from the CPU, rather than simply "blowing air on it". That method of displacement is used by your case fans for moving heat through the case.

A water cooler works in very much the same way. There is a cold plate (usually copper) that makes direct contact with the CPU lid. The heat is conducted from the CPU, through this plate, and into a continuously running stream of water on the other side. Obviously, electronics and water do not mix and the two things never come in contact with each other. This water flow serves as the transport mechanism to carry to heat from the cold plate and CPU to the radiator. While passing through the radiator, the fans blow air across the thin metal fins and this aids the release of heat from the water stream into the air. The water leaves at one temperature from the cold plate and returns cooler after the radiator. It then picks up more heat and repeats the loop. This is more effective than air transmission for several reasons. First, water is much better conductor of energy than air. You can move more heat, more quickly. The other big advantage, as suggested above, is you can transport that heat directly to an exit point in the case. With an air tower, you are still releasing it on top of the motherboard and this may have some influence on the components around the tower.

The other thing to understand is heat flows both ways across any transmission point. Even if your motherboard is supplying 0 volts to your CPU, it will not drop to room temperature. It will become (more or less) the same temperature as the coolant on the other side of the cold plate. As such, you are attempting to control the coolant temperature as a means to controlling your CPU temperature. The coolant temperature will always be your baseline starting point. The lower your baseline, the lower your load CPU temps will be under the same conditions. This can be done simply by lowering room temperature, but also this is the value directly affected by fan speed. The third significant benefit of water cooling is the cooler has a greater capacity to hold a given amount of heat at any one instance, compared to an air tower. You can absorb momentary increases in CPU power without the need to have an instantaneous fan response. With most air towers, you have a few seconds before things start to slide upwards. With medium and large water systems, you can leave the fans on low levels for most tasks, save extended long duration CPU loads like rendering, encoding, stress tests, etc. Even the little tiny H55-like 120mm on my GPU can keep its diode temperature 40 degrees cooler than its original air channeled radiator. You will not see that kind of improvement over an air tower. 5-10C is more common, depending on cooler model and CPU. However, the real improvement is the ability to handle a higher workload for a longer time period, making it the choice for professional systems and overclockers looking to take full advantage of the increased cooling potential.
Thanks again.

My biggest concern was how the coolant is moved across the cold plate. I found a couple of YouTube videos that showed how the pumping system works so now I understand that function.

The idea I'm working with is to try to create a budget (-$1,500) RGB LED computer.

The components I'm currently thinking about are:

_Intel - i5-7600k
_MSI - Z270 Gaming M5
_Corsair - Vengeance RGB 2x8GB 3200MHz
_EVGA - GTX 1070
_Corsair - H100i v2 Water Cooler
_Corsair - 460X RGB Case
_Intel - 600p M.2 NVMe 256GB SSD
_WD - Blue SATA 500GB SSD
_WD - Blue 2TB HDD
_Corsair - RM650x PSU

The parts above currently list out at around $1,650 at Newegg. I'm not going to build this rig until late summer into fall. I'm going to start picking up parts when they go on sale and I'm hoping to come in well under my $1,500 budget.
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  #6  
Old 01-25-2017, 05:59 PM
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Sounds like you have a solid plan. Save the drives for last. They are most likely to come down in price as time goes by and are the most replaceable with another size or type if needed.
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Old 01-25-2017, 06:18 PM
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If you plan on using a H100i v2 with this case the led memory wont fit if you top mount you need low profile memory. If you front mount the cooling pipes from the rad will interfere with the glass side panel making it hard to get on.
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Old 01-25-2017, 06:18 PM
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Sounds like you have a solid plan. Save the drives for last. They are most likely to come down in price as time goes by and are the most replaceable with another size or type if needed.
Yeah, storage seems like the biggest change moving forward. I see that WD will be coming out with a new M.2 lineup this summer. I hope 1TB SATA SSD's will come down in price, but with the NAND shortage...time will tell.

I really appreciate you giving this thread your time.
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Old 01-25-2017, 06:23 PM
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If you plan on using a H100i v2 with this case the led memory wont fit if you top mount you need low profile memory. If you front mount the cooling pipes from the rad will interfere with the glass side panel making it hard to get on.
I'm starting to think that a H80i v2 mounted to the top rear case fan output might be the way to go...I don't know.
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Old 01-25-2017, 09:34 PM
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If you mean the top panel, rear fan -- it will come down and block the rear exhaust fan, almost in its entirely. Similarly, if you put the H80i v2 in the rear slot, it will somewhat limit the utility of the top panel, rear fan. If that is less important to you than large RAM while avoiding a front panel mount, then that may be acceptable to you.
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Old 01-26-2017, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by c-attack View Post
If you mean the top panel, rear fan -- it will come down and block the rear exhaust fan, almost in its entirely. Similarly, if you put the H80i v2 in the rear slot, it will somewhat limit the utility of the top panel, rear fan. If that is less important to you than large RAM while avoiding a front panel mount, then that may be acceptable to you.
Alrighty then. It's looking like a front mount for the H100i v2 is the way to go. I've just been checking out some 460X builds at YouTube using the H100i v2 and they are all front mount. A front mount means I'll get my cool air over the radiator and I just need to pick up a three pack of SP120 RGB 120mm fans for an exhaust system...and to polish the look.

Below is a screenshot I took while watching a video at YouTube. It comes close to what I'm looking for.


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Old 01-26-2017, 05:46 PM
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I would slide the H100i v2 up to the top two front intake fans. This puts more or the waste heat in line to exit via the top exhaust and also provides a clean air intake for the GPU. You will see most 240mm radiators set up that way. Below is the common stock photo of it with the 240 up top. It is certainly a viable placement, but beware the memory height.


If you were to picture an H80i v2 in the rear top, it would come down another 45mm from the H100i depth. This would effectively take air from right off the GPU. I would strongly recommend against this mount and there is a reason I can't find a picture of that position.



The traditional rear slot and front top slot are viable for the H80i. However, note the thickness in the rear slot. Given the price differential is almost non-existent, I would opt for the H100i is my case could fit it.


Not the 460x, but the distance from rear to CPU socket is standardized. It would come to the same point in the 460x.
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Old 01-30-2017, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by c-attack View Post
I would slide the H100i v2 up to the top two front intake fans. This puts more or the waste heat in line to exit via the top exhaust and also provides a clean air intake for the GPU. You will see most 240mm radiators set up that way. Below is the common stock photo of it with the 240 up top. It is certainly a viable placement, but beware the memory height.

If you were to picture an H80i v2 in the rear top, it would come down another 45mm from the H100i depth. This would effectively take air from right off the GPU. I would strongly recommend against this mount and there is a reason I can't find a picture of that position...the traditional rear slot and front top slot are viable for the H80i. However, note the thickness in the rear slot. Given the price differential is almost non-existent, I would opt for the H100i is my case could fit it...not the 460x, but the distance from rear to CPU socket is standardized. It would come to the same point in the 460x.
Yes, blocking the bottom fan would not help the GPU, and an upper mount would help in top exhaust, so thanks for reminding me. It's been six years since I built my current rig so I'm relearning a lot of stuff.

By mounting the H100i v2 up I'll be taking off the two stock fans and using the two top LED fans for intake. I'll get my room temperature cooling the radiator which I prefer. I'm assuming that the intake fans are high pressure and enough to move air through the radiator.

Will the two top fans be under control of the pump/fan controller? I mean will those two top fans speed up or slow down depending on the temperature of the CPU?

I'm also assuming the two fans I take off the H100i v2 are not RGB fans.
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Old 01-30-2017, 05:05 PM
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No, it's not a problem to use the SP120RGB instead of the included grey SP120L fans. I assumed you (and everyone else) would do exactly that when front mounting to preserve the RGB front glass look.

The control scheme will be a bit different. Since the included SP120 RGB fans are 3 pin DC motors, they will not be controllable via the pump on the H100i v2 or H80i v2. You will connect them to the motherboard and set a control parameter of your choice (CPU temp, VRM temp, etc). The operation of the pump and cooling system won't change and you don't need the fans to react to dynamic changes in CPU core temps. If I were setting up for some gaming, I would likely set them to a fixed speed of comfortable volume and leave it alone. For normal use, as long as air keeps moving across the fins to displace the warm air coming off them, the system will work. Regardless, that is one of those things you will tinker with during the first month as you get settled and does not require advanced planning. In a worst case scenario where you need more air or different controls, you could go push-pull on the H100i v2, either more SP120RGB or a PWM fan connected directly to the pump. Balancing the two sets can be tricky with two different control schemes, but it unlikely this would be required anyway.

The only way to use either cooler as designed under Link control, would be to strip out all the SP120 RGB fans and replace them with HD120 PWM fans. However, those would not be compatible with the case's built-in controller.
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Old 03-05-2017, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by 007vsMagua View Post
Thank you for the awesome reply. It never occurred to me that I would be blowing heat back into the case...don't want that. I'm thinking the H100i v2 should work just fine in the roof. I did edit my original post with another question if you wish to have a look at it.
-ive just finished my build with the 460x rgb and i mounted a 280mm radiator on the front behind the intake fans. To prevent the hot air cooking the GPU i just turned the stock fans around on the front of the case to push the hot air out rathe then blowing it towards the GPU. The lighting still works fine even though its backwards, if you're worried about that. i was to. i also put 2 rgb 120mm fans up the top to suck air intothe case and another on the exhaust. i check my temps regulary and its all stay very cool. i also had a tech dude from my local pc shop look over it to make sure everything worked properly. So i would reccomend doing that if you mount the radiator on the front :) I can take picture if you would like to see it as well.

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