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  #16  
Old 07-01-2013, 12:13 PM
chunkymoney chunkymoney is offline
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I just wanted to report back my findings with the C3, C6 suggestions I saw on newegg for the Z87 Gigabyte board. Even though I'm running the H87 I think there is some overlap (my manual even says ga-Z87 on it), but because the issue also pops up on the H87 from my personal experience and other comments I've seen on newegg referring to BSODs.


Anyways, it crashed still, although I was getting different error codes this time...I kept getting "CRITICAL_OBJECT_TERMINATION" or F4 errors. Never got those before, I then went on to turn off the C3, C6, C1E, and the EIST features. This also resulted in a crash.

What I found very strange is I could sort of make it crash with those settings off by running prime95....then stopping it. The crash would happen AFTER running prime95 when the voltages start to drop and the temp goes down, hard to say if it was a coincidence or not, I have no idea and didn't feel like figuring it out or watching voltages. So I renabled the C3, C6, C1E, and the EIST and I'm back to square one sort of....


When I was having the sleep issues with the video card, a lot of people said "its the ram!" then some other people said "it's the ram timings!". I tried to drop down from 1600 to 1333 on my 2x8gb corsair ram, but it would never stick for some reason. So I went with the "it's the video card"...since memtest ran for 12+ hours with no errors.


I've gone back to the original idea of maybe it's the timings, and was actually able to get the memory set at 1333 9-9-9-24 which is the SPD rating for my ram (instead of 1600 10-10-10-27). What I have discovered 100% for a fact is the memory settings are not sticking unless you turn the computer OFF. That's why when I first tried the timings idea before it never worked, I always did a "save & restart" from BIOS but the machine never turned off and the settings never locked in....they saved yes....but they didn't turn on. I didn't clue into this until I couldn't set the tRAS setting on the second channel, it would not stick, then I did a "shutdown" in windows by accident....bam....tRAS set. So I know for a fact on the Gigabyte H87 you have to turn off the machine for the memory settings to hold, or at the very least it's a random bug and turning it lock in the settings.


So this will be my final test before returning the motherboard, I don't mind running at the SPD settings for the ram if it works. But I'm just tired of trying to figure what's wrong, and there is very little support in terms of BIOS updates on the H87 vs the Z87 for gigabyte. The Z87 has update after update and even beta BIOSs, lots of people complaining that the BIOS updates still don't fix their issues, but at least you can see they are trying to fix it. But on the H87 I have lost hope as there has not been a single update.....which I understand since it's just a basic board and probably not enough people use it. So if the SPD settings which I finally got working fail, I will upgrade to a more popular board that has more BIOS updates and fixes.

I'll report back what I find, maybe it will help someone else. Hopefully the memory setting bug I found helps out someone, it might be fixed in the Z87 BIOS since they are 3 revisions ahead of me, but the Gigabyte H87 F3 BIOS....you have to power the machine down after you change your memory settings for them to actually take effect.

I also ran memtest 4.3.0 BETA last night, again on the 1600 setting.....no errors...again. My theory is these boards H87 and Z87 were just released too early with not enough testing, and everyone that bought them are now doing free R&D for gigabyte so they can make the BIOS what it should have been in the beginning.

Last edited by chunkymoney; 07-01-2013 at 12:16 PM.
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  #17  
Old 07-01-2013, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
I've gone back to the original idea of maybe it's the timings, and was actually able to get the memory set at 1333 9-9-9-24 which is the SPD rating for my ram (instead of 1600 10-10-10-27). What I have discovered 100% for a fact is the memory settings are not sticking unless you turn the computer OFF. That's why when I first tried the timings idea before it never worked, I always did a "save & restart" from BIOS but the machine never turned off and the settings never locked in....they saved yes....but they didn't turn on. I didn't clue into this until I couldn't set the tRAS setting on the second channel, it would not stick, then I did a "shutdown" in windows by accident....bam....tRAS set. So I know for a fact on the Gigabyte H87 you have to turn off the machine for the memory settings to hold, or at the very least it's a random bug and turning it lock in the settings.
But the only problem there is that your CPU has a native 1600mhz memory controller. All memory will default to the SPD 1333mhz when first installed just to be sure it will boot successfully. But with your CPU and chipset 1600mhz shouldn't be an issue at the advertized settings.

Quote:
I also ran memtest 4.3.0 BETA last night, again on the 1600 setting.....no errors...again. My theory is these boards H87 and Z87 were just released too early with not enough testing, and everyone that bought them are now doing free R&D for gigabyte so they can make the BIOS what it should have been in the beginning.
They are all the same basic chipset family . The only differnce being a few extra bells and whistles if you get my drift. But I have to agree with you and your findings.

And please guys I'm not saying this because I'm a "fanboy" or anything like that. Just giving you my complete honest feelings on the issue. I really don't think this is a memory issue but more of a problem that lies with Gigabyte.
Quote:
.you have to power the machine down after you change your memory settings for them to actually take effect.
Actually , you should clear your CMOS before changing settings. Just powering down may not be enough to flush out the old setting stuck in the BIOS.
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Last edited by peanutz94; 07-01-2013 at 12:39 PM.
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  #18  
Old 07-01-2013, 03:01 PM
bigfatron bigfatron is offline
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Originally Posted by peanutz94 View Post
Just out of curiosity did either bigfatron or chrispy get in contact with gigabyte?
I haven't as yet although I fully intend to. They want the s/n off the motherboard for the support ticket and I haven't come round to popping the lid off to find it yet. I'll report back with any updates as and when.
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  #19  
Old 07-02-2013, 09:45 AM
chrispy550 chrispy550 is offline
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Originally Posted by peanutz94 View Post
Just out of curiosity did either bigfatron or chrispy get in contact with gigabyte?
No. I had assumed that since they have the RAM on their boards compatibility list that they must test these? But that is appearing to not be the case.

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Originally Posted by peanutz94 View Post
Exactly! That means that this kit has been specifically tested on that board. And also another reason why I believe you both have bad MB's. But again, lets see how this plays out and please keep us updated if you can.
As I stated in my original thread, this is my second one of these boards. When I first started working through this problem my determination was that I had a bad motherboard and I promptly RMA'd it for another. As we know, it is entirely possible to receive two defective motherboards in a row, but I don't believe it to be a 'defective' issue. It is seeming like they didn't do enough testing before releasing these boards. I really like Gigabyte boards, but I am strongly considering RMA'ing this board AGAIN and going to something more established so I can just have a working computer.

Corsair has declined sending me a new part number for RAM and instead is only going to send me new sticks of the same part number, which I believe will be a waste of time - I don't think my RAM is defective.


One last thing to report: I too attempted the C3, C6, EIST "fix". I have a friend that is very knowledgeable helping me through this problem since I first started having it. One of his suggestions was that it is a power saving issue with Haswell. But unfortunately, just as you discovered yourself, trying to remedy the problem by disabling those power saving BIOS features proved fruitless as well.
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  #20  
Old 07-02-2013, 01:11 PM
bigfatron bigfatron is offline
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Raised a ticket and it was suggested that I try the beta BIOS (F5C at the time of writing). I have not long since applied this and the system is currently running with RAM at 1600MHz. I will report back in a day or two with an update on stability.

EDIT: clearly no help with stability and also caused an issue with the USB 3 (kept coming up with 'This device can perform faster') so restored the previous BIOS. Further updates to follow when I get them...

Last edited by bigfatron; 07-02-2013 at 03:52 PM.
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  #21  
Old 07-02-2013, 09:00 PM
chunkymoney chunkymoney is offline
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I'll just comment on what I tried, aka lowering my memory to 1333, it was stable for over 24hrs...which was a first! I was doing prime95 a number of times, putting the pc to sleep, waking it up (it usually hates that), I couldn't get a BSOD....I was pretty happy. Then 5 min ago....I notice I plugged a device into the USB and it didn't pick it up.....then my internet stopped working. I kept waiting for a BSOD, nothing, I couldn't open "explorer.exe" to check my system, I had one still in the taskbar...all my drives vanished, no ssd drive, no 1TB drive...but my DVD drive stayed online for some reason. Then some random memory popup, but no BSOD. I had to reset the machine..it wouldn't BSOD for some reason, of course it works on reboot....for how long? that's up to the Gigabyte gremlin to decide. But I'm done with this Gigabyte H87 board, I'm going to see if I can get a refund on it, I'll be moving onto the top of the line ASUS H87 board since I don't overclock...unless I see a Z87 on sale....because I now know Z87 boards get more BIOS updates, which is nice since all these boards are new.


It will probably be a few weeks until I can post back with what I find out on the Asus side of things. If it takes a while to get a reply for a refund, I might test out a single stick of ram just for kicks.


Also if anyone is wondering why I didn't try Gigabyte support, I've seen mixed results from doing that. One they might just replace the board, but maybe it's just the BIOS that needs fixed...which is what I'm leaning towards....and second..sometimes it takes up to a week to get a reply from them...I don't feel like playing email tag with them. All these options close the window on me getting a refund, so I'll cash out now instead of playing the waiting game with Gigabyte and see what an Asus board does. I'll report back what I find, hopefully we all figure this out and find a solution I know how frustrating this is.
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  #22  
Old 07-03-2013, 02:10 AM
chrispy550 chrispy550 is offline
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chunky,

I am with you.

Even as I currently await my RMA RAM from Corsair I am looking for an ASUS board since I still have the option to return this Gigabyte mess.

I like Gigabyte a lot and my last build ran flawlessly with it for years. It's unfortunate to see what happened with these particular boards. It is probably a very small issue with our exact hardware's, but never-the-less I would have preferred a bit more extensive testing when they placed our RAM on their board's list of compatible hardware.

I suppose this comes with the territory when you upgrade when a new generation comes out. This is my first time waiting for a new generation of processor/socket and buying/building right away. There are headaches.
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  #23  
Old 07-03-2013, 02:52 PM
bigfatron bigfatron is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chunkymoney View Post
Also if anyone is wondering why I didn't try Gigabyte support, I've seen mixed results from doing that.
I must admit its been a mixed bag thus far. They've been responding fairly quickly but there is little indication that the suggestions are based on expecting results rather than 'just try everything' (like they suggested trying changing some settings but weren't saying what to set them to and so on). Things are currently at a bit of an impasse as i'd pointed out the USB 3 issues that their beta BIOS was causing. They'd also suggested checking the chip socket although i'll need to first get some more thermal paste for remounting the heatsink, and getting it off in the first place is a fairly hefty task in its own right (its the BeQuiet one that was bundled with the board).

The RAM i'm not convinced is the issue as I've run Memtest for about an hour solid with no issues. I'll do a longer run later. The only RAM I have available to swap it out with is only 1333 stuff anyway. Plus the comedy-oversized heat spreaders mean the chore of stripping the fan off in order to get the RAM in/out of slot 1.

One other thing I should be able to rule out shortly is power. The PSU I've got is a few years old and admittedly cutting it a little fine (middle of the road Thermaltake 500W PSU and PSU calculators reckon i'm drawing about 400W). I needed a new one anyway (i'm passing on my old i5 750 machine to someone else so this PSU will go back into that) and that should be in the machine by this time tomorrow. Is this a viable suspect for BSOD behaviour?

Last edited by bigfatron; 07-03-2013 at 02:56 PM.
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  #24  
Old 07-03-2013, 03:34 PM
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One other thing I should be able to rule out shortly is power. The PSU I've got is a few years old and admittedly cutting it a little fine (middle of the road Thermaltake 500W PSU and PSU calculators reckon i'm drawing about 400W). I needed a new one anyway (i'm passing on my old i5 750 machine to someone else so this PSU will go back into that) and that should be in the machine by this time tomorrow. Is this a viable suspect for BSOD behaviour?
Even drawing 400w out of 500w PSU shouldn't cause a blue screen. If your voltages were low to start with , sure it possible or are dropping more than 5% under load. You could rule that out easy enough by stressing the system and watch your voltages as it run's. If the 5v or 3.3v rail drop real low that will usually cause a crash or blue screen.

If there is one thing I've learned about computers is that EVERYTHING is a viable suspect for a blue screen! LOL

However, i don't believe power is the issue either.

Let us know how you make please!
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  #25  
Old 07-03-2013, 04:54 PM
bigfatron bigfatron is offline
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Originally Posted by peanutz94 View Post
Even drawing 400w out of 500w PSU shouldn't cause a blue screen. If your voltages were low to start with , sure it possible or are dropping more than 5% under load. You could rule that out easy enough by stressing the system and watch your voltages as it run's. If the 5v or 3.3v rail drop real low that will usually cause a crash or blue screen.

If there is one thing I've learned about computers is that EVERYTHING is a viable suspect for a blue screen! LOL

However, i don't believe power is the issue either.

Let us know how you make please!
Having just re-run the numbers then its throwing up a minimum wattage of 401W. Although I didn't enter an ageing figure for that (must be 3 years old), so add 20% as a conservative figure and that's taken us to a new minimum of 481W and a recommended wattage (531W) in excess of the supply (Thermaltake TR2-500). EDIT: a bit of googling of the part in question suggests the 500W rating was optimistic for this PSU anyway

As an experiment I've popped out the graphics card, enabled the integrated graphics and am currently running a Prime95 test on it. It will be interesting to see how that goes. Then hopefully the new PSU lands on Thursday.

Last edited by bigfatron; 07-03-2013 at 05:01 PM.
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  #26  
Old 07-03-2013, 05:30 PM
chrispy550 chrispy550 is offline
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Quick update here. I thought I was running 100% stable for days since I switched to using only 2 RAM sticks (2 x 4GB) and at the XMP profile so they were at 1600mhz. I had no problems for days until today.

It started with the USB issue that was already mentioned here (I am on the beta BIOS). And then the lockups / crashes / etc began.

I dropped the XMP profile but maintained 8GB and it appears to be "stable" again, but only relatively so. I am just limping along while I await my replacement sticks from Corsair and once I get those and no progress will be made (since my sticks aren't defective) I will be returning this Gigabyte board for an ASUS and washing my hands of it.
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  #27  
Old 07-03-2013, 05:51 PM
bigfatron bigfatron is offline
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Originally Posted by chrispy550 View Post
Quick update here. I thought I was running 100% stable for days since I switched to using only 2 RAM sticks (2 x 4GB) and at the XMP profile so they were at 1600mhz. I had no problems for days until today.

It started with the USB issue that was already mentioned here (I am on the beta BIOS). And then the lockups / crashes / etc began.

I dropped the XMP profile but maintained 8GB and it appears to be "stable" again, but only relatively so. I am just limping along while I await my replacement sticks from Corsair and once I get those and no progress will be made (since my sticks aren't defective) I will be returning this Gigabyte board for an ASUS and washing my hands of it.
Sorry to hear you're still suffering. Strange that you didn't get the USB issue until some time later, I wonder why that is?
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  #28  
Old 07-04-2013, 07:04 PM
bigfatron bigfatron is offline
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Hmm, PSU was no real help in the end

EDIT:

Anyone got any suggestions then? To summarise...

- The RAM i'm using worked OK in an i5 750 rig for a few months, albeit at lower speed.
- I've Memtested said RAM as a quartet for about 3 passes on the new kit with no issues
- The BSODs i'm suffering don't appear to have a common pattern when I look in BlueScreenView
- The current system is more stable at 1333 than at 1600 but not acceptably so (still occasionally BSODs)
- I'm already running the current BIOS and the most recent BIOS only seems to make things worse
- CPU has been popped out, inspected and reseated. As has every other component at one point or another.

Of things I can swap out then the PSU has already been replaced anyway (needed a bigger one). The only alternative RAM I have is 4x2GB Crucial stuff thats only rated to 1333, so not sure if shoving that in will really prove anything?

The other odd thing is knowing what triggers the BSOD. The system can actually be fine for a few hours at a time (esp. at 1333 memory speed) but occasionally its taken a dump at the Windows login screen. Running Prime95 doesn't seem to cause an issue. Games sometimes set it off but not always. Sandra's burn-in test has caused a failure occasionally. Data transfers within Lightroom caused a couple. CPU temps barely hit 60 under load and idle at 30 so don't think its that either.

Last edited by bigfatron; 07-05-2013 at 02:44 AM.
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  #29  
Old 07-10-2013, 07:26 PM
chrispy550 chrispy550 is offline
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Update:

Received the new RAM from Corsair. They declined to give me a different part number, just a replacement of the same kit.

Put all 4 x 4GB (16GB) into system. Manually set timings to 9-9-9-24, 1.50V and 1600mhz. System was able to boot for the first time and appeared to run stable for a day or so. I thought my issue was solved. I originally believed the RAM to never have been the issue, but to humor Corsair I allowed the RMA for the same kit. I was starting to feel very silly that I had ruled out the RAM being defective since it was appearing as though the replacement RAM was allowing my system to run flawlessly...... Until today.

Problem persists. Given up on going the Corsair route for solving. It's not a defective RAM issue, its a board + CMZ16GX3M4A1600C9 issue. I wish that Corsair had been able to send me a different part number like I needed to get up and running, instead I have gone through a huge hassle with RMA'ing two boards, thermal paste reapplies 3 times and still don't have a stable system weeks later. Once the ASUS board arrives I will wash my hands of this Gigabyte mess and also rethink Corsair for the future.
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  #30  
Old 07-11-2013, 02:36 AM
bigfatron bigfatron is offline
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Originally Posted by chrispy550 View Post
Update:

Received the new RAM from Corsair. They declined to give me a different part number, just a replacement of the same kit.

Put all 4 x 4GB (16GB) into system. Manually set timings to 9-9-9-24, 1.50V and 1600mhz. System was able to boot for the first time and appeared to run stable for a day or so. I thought my issue was solved. I originally believed the RAM to never have been the issue, but to humor Corsair I allowed the RMA for the same kit. I was starting to feel very silly that I had ruled out the RAM being defective since it was appearing as though the replacement RAM was allowing my system to run flawlessly...... Until today.

Problem persists. Given up on going the Corsair route for solving. It's not a defective RAM issue, its a board + CMZ16GX3M4A1600C9 issue. I wish that Corsair had been able to send me a different part number like I needed to get up and running, instead I have gone through a huge hassle with RMA'ing two boards, thermal paste reapplies 3 times and still don't have a stable system weeks later. Once the ASUS board arrives I will wash my hands of this Gigabyte mess and also rethink Corsair for the future.
Ouch. Let us know how you get on changing boards. I'm still working through my problems too, although its not as bad as it was. My suspicion is away from the RAM as i've done a couple of overnight memtest runs that didn't turn anything untowards up. Plus I could still get the system to crash with alternative RAM installed (albeit 1333 stuff). So currently i'm ruling out other options, and one thing that did seem to reduce frequency of it going bump was ditching the Intel AHCI driver for the stock MS one.
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