The Corsair User Forums  

Go Back   The Corsair User Forums > Corsair Product Discussion > Cooling

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 8 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-26-2012, 05:24 AM
Gr3y Gr3y is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Denmark
Posts: 4
POST ID # = 574723
Gr3y Reputation: 10
Question Air inside H80

Hello

I just bought a new H80 and having had a custom water cooled setup in the past, I know that air inside a water cooling loop is bad, it messes up the pump and it screws up temperatures.

When I shake it, I can hear that there is a LOT of air inside it.
Should I even bother installing it?

Thanks for reading.

Ps. Batch version: 11469402

Last edited by Gr3y; 04-26-2012 at 05:27 AM.
Reply With Quote


Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
  #2  
Old 04-26-2012, 06:31 AM
wlw_wl's Avatar
wlw_wl wlw_wl is offline
Registered User
wlw_wl's PC Specs
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Poznan, Poland
Posts: 441
POST ID # = 574735
wlw_wl Reputation: 10
Default

Try running it out of the PC in such a manner that the air escapes the pump towards the radiator, align the radiator above the pump with the hoses exiting the pump upwards and shake it, maybe you'll get all the air to the rad and it will work okay-ish. Maybe...
Reply With Quote


Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
  #3  
Old 04-26-2012, 06:35 AM
Gr3y Gr3y is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Denmark
Posts: 4
POST ID # = 574738
Gr3y Reputation: 10
Thumbs down

Thanks for the reply wlw_wl

It sounds like pretty much 1/4 of the insides of this one is air.

I've pretty much decided that I don't want it.
And reading all the threads on this forum doesn't make me want a new one sadly.
Reply With Quote


Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
  #4  
Old 04-27-2012, 03:56 AM
sickfiddydee sickfiddydee is offline
Registered User
sickfiddydee's PC Specs
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 80
POST ID # = 574915
sickfiddydee Reputation: 10
Default

There has to be air inside. It's a closed system, so it needs to contain air to allow expansion of the fluid, (Air is compressible, fluid is not.)
You don't want air in circulation, but that won't happen, as long as one of the radiator's tanks is at the high point of the system. That's where the air will settle, in a nice little pocket.

What you see on this board are the defects. If you were to count them up, they would be a small fraction of total production. The simple reason all you see is this small fraction, is that people who have normally functioning units rarely post to complain!
Reply With Quote


Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
  #5  
Old 04-27-2012, 04:58 AM
wlw_wl's Avatar
wlw_wl wlw_wl is offline
Registered User
wlw_wl's PC Specs
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Poznan, Poland
Posts: 441
POST ID # = 574925
wlw_wl Reputation: 10
Default

So you say that it has to allow for the expansions of the liquid, and in the same sentence you state that the fluid isn't compressible?

Such a small volume of water there is in the system has such a low change in volume over the operating temperature range that I don't think it's a concern at all.
Reply With Quote


Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
  #6  
Old 04-27-2012, 06:23 AM
sickfiddydee sickfiddydee is offline
Registered User
sickfiddydee's PC Specs
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 80
POST ID # = 574931
sickfiddydee Reputation: 10
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wlw_wl View Post
So you say that it has to allow for the expansions of the liquid, and in the same sentence you state that the fluid isn't compressible?
Absolutely true. Gasses are compressible, fluids are not. The air in the closed systems is necessary, as it allows for the continual expansion and contraction of the fluid, which would otherwise put stresses on system components.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wlw_wl View Post
Such a small volume of water there is in the system has such a low change in volume over the operating temperature range that I don't think it's a concern at all.
Think what you like. You're entitled to, but please if you care to debate the subject, take it up w/ Corsair's engineers, rather than myself.
Reply With Quote


Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
  #7  
Old 04-27-2012, 07:18 AM
babdi babdi is offline
Speed is the limit
babdi's PC Specs
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Mumbai,India
Posts: 486
POST ID # = 574938
babdi Reputation: 10
Default

In any closed loop hydraulics there will be a small airgap unless they are sealed in vaccum.

Sickfiddydee just for your information
Fluids are also compressible like air. Air is easily compressible as molecules are spaced wider than in a fluid which requires higher pressure to compress.
Reply With Quote


Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
  #8  
Old 04-27-2012, 07:54 AM
wlw_wl's Avatar
wlw_wl wlw_wl is offline
Registered User
wlw_wl's PC Specs
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Poznan, Poland
Posts: 441
POST ID # = 574939
wlw_wl Reputation: 10
Default

My point is that fluids aren't as compressible as gases like you said, so at the same time they do not expand as much as gases do, that's all.
Reply With Quote


Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
  #9  
Old 04-27-2012, 01:11 PM
sickfiddydee sickfiddydee is offline
Registered User
sickfiddydee's PC Specs
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 80
POST ID # = 575019
sickfiddydee Reputation: 10
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by babdi View Post
In any closed loop hydraulics there will be a small airgap unless they are sealed in vaccum.

Sickfiddydee just for your information
Fluids are also compressible like air. Air is easily compressible as molecules are spaced wider than in a fluid which requires higher pressure to compress.
That's interesting. I was unaware that fluids were compressible at all.
Reply With Quote


Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
  #10  
Old 04-27-2012, 01:17 PM
sickfiddydee sickfiddydee is offline
Registered User
sickfiddydee's PC Specs
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 80
POST ID # = 575023
sickfiddydee Reputation: 10
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wlw_wl View Post
My point is that fluids aren't as compressible as gases like you said, so at the same time they do not expand as much as gases do, that's all.
Agreed.
However since gasses are easily compressible, air (even if it has expanded) can be compressed by expanding fluid. With zero air in the system, the fluid would otherwise exert internal force. While the volume of expansion is not great, that force (and repeated cycling) can be enough to damage structures like radiators, which by design can not be very robust.
Reply With Quote


Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
  #11  
Old 04-27-2012, 01:28 PM
wlw_wl's Avatar
wlw_wl wlw_wl is offline
Registered User
wlw_wl's PC Specs
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Poznan, Poland
Posts: 441
POST ID # = 575027
wlw_wl Reputation: 10
Default

That makes sense and I agree, however Gr3y reported what I would call abnormal amounts of air, in the H100 I had (bigger capacity, so even more air should be there) I couldn't hear anything such.
Reply With Quote


Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
  #12  
Old 04-27-2012, 01:43 PM
sickfiddydee sickfiddydee is offline
Registered User
sickfiddydee's PC Specs
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 80
POST ID # = 575032
sickfiddydee Reputation: 10
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wlw_wl View Post
That makes sense and I agree, however Gr3y reported what I would call abnormal amounts of air, in the H100 I had (bigger capacity, so even more air should be there) I couldn't hear anything such.
Yes, he stated there was a "lot" of air inside, which is rather subjective and which (to be honest) I took with a grain of salt.
One does not want air circulating in the system, but there actually is always air "in" any system, including custom systems. After all, the reservoir contains air. Once the system is "bled," gravity simply keeps the air and liquid separated, as long as they are not agitated.

Could be his system didn't have a complete fill, but I would guess it more likely that he just didn't realize the presence of some air is normal... and actually required.
Reply With Quote


Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
  #13  
Old 04-27-2012, 01:48 PM
wlw_wl's Avatar
wlw_wl wlw_wl is offline
Registered User
wlw_wl's PC Specs
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Poznan, Poland
Posts: 441
POST ID # = 575036
wlw_wl Reputation: 10
Default

The OP isn't new to water cooling, so I would discredit him.
Reply With Quote


Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
  #14  
Old 04-28-2012, 04:31 PM
Gr3y Gr3y is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Denmark
Posts: 4
POST ID # = 575274
Gr3y Reputation: 10
Exclamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by sickfiddydee View Post
Yes, he stated there was a "lot" of air inside, which is rather subjective and which (to be honest) I took with a grain of salt.
One does not want air circulating in the system, but there actually is always air "in" any system, including custom systems. After all, the reservoir contains air. Once the system is "bled," gravity simply keeps the air and liquid separated, as long as they are not agitated.

Could be his system didn't have a complete fill, but I would guess it more likely that he just didn't realize the presence of some air is normal... and actually required.
Air has terrible heat capacity unless there is a lot of it, like from a fan. Air inside a water cooling loop would take away from the effectiveness of the water. And air inside the radiator would therefore mean a less effective radiator (because there is less room for the water to distribute the heat onto the radiator-grill), which in turn means a hotter heatsink.

This might have been made by American engineers, but it was assembled by uneducated factory-men in China.

Thank you, but now I'll make my own loop, even though I don't really want to.
Reply With Quote


Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
  #15  
Old 04-28-2012, 05:22 PM
MSIINOZ's Avatar
MSIINOZ MSIINOZ is offline
Registered User
MSIINOZ's PC Specs
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: AT THE BEACH AUSTRALIA
Posts: 82
POST ID # = 575280
MSIINOZ Reputation: 10
Default

My H60 had about 150ml of liquid in it? With a reservoir and some longer hose I now have 500ml in the system & no air except for a little in the reservoir where it belongs
Reply With Quote


Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
Reply

Tags
air, bubbles, h80, inside, trapped

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:38 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.