Commander Pro Issues

I recently purchased a Commander Pro (CLCP) and 5 x HD140 RGB Fans. After a firmware update, the CLCP seems to be working well (under SIV control) but I have found that the CLCP is not able to detect fans that are plugged in or unplugged while the CLCP is running (Hot Plugging). A power cycle is required for the CLCP to detect the addition or removal of a fan.

As the Commander Mini (CLCM) could detect Hot Plugged fans, I feel that the CLCP should also be able to do this. I originally posted about this in the Using SIV to provide information to diagnose issues or to control CL hardware thread

http://forum.corsair.com/forums/showthread.php?p=907602#post907602

but since this is a CLCP firmware issue and not a SIV issue, I was advised to start this new thread for CLCP issues.

I opened a ticket at Corsair to address this issue. The initial response I got is posted here.

http://forum.corsair.com/forums/showthread.php?p=908274#post908274

Upon checking, we don't support hot plugging or hot swapping with the fans nor the commander pro.

So I responded with the following,

Thank you for your response. I also own a Commander Mini and it detects hot-plugged fans just fine so I do not understand why the Commander Pro cannot do this. I suspect this is a firmware issue that could be resolved should Corsair choose to do so.

There are several posts on the Corsair forum regarding this problem and as more people purchase the Commander Pro, I expect that you will be receiving more support tickets regarding this problem. Can you please explain to me why the Commander Pro cannot detect fans plugged in without power cycling the device.

Yesterday I received another response from Corsair -

As for the my understanding, the commander came first before the mini, we have an with your commander pro as it works perfectly fine with your mini. Let me investigate more on this and will give more information, can you give me time until Tuesday so i can gather all the information? thank you

I do not even understand the first sentence as it is non-sensible.:thinking: He seems to think the CLCP was released BEFORE the CLCM which is clearly incorrect. The CLCP was released for sale a few weeks ago. The CLCM has been on the market for at least a year and probably longer. So I am left with a response from a Corsair support person who does not even know when or in what order these products were released to the market, and a response that makes no sense to me at all no matter how many times I read it.

He does say that he will investigate more so I will respond and explain that he seems to be confused about which product preceded which, or perhaps what a Commander Pro even is. In addition to the obvious firmware issues with the CLCP, I have to deal with a Corsair support person who seems to be totally confused, sending me responses that border on illiterate. So I will count to 10 slowly and try again to make him understand which products i am talking about. I will post updates as they come in.

• I raised this with Corsair and the response was basically Limitations with hotplugging aren’t a priority.

Given I got the above response from Corsair on Mon 05-Jun-17 @ 18:55 I can't understand why Corsair support need 'till Tuesday to respond.

As for the my understanding, the commander came first before the mini,

I suspect he is talking about the old link commander, but this is nothing more than irrelevant and confusing information.

 

The CL4 does even support the old Commander, but it does support the Cooling Node, and guess what? Yes, hot plug also works with that :p:.

 

Below I did a hot unplug of Cooler-M Fan 5 which of course SIV reflected :biggrin:.

 

 

I suspect you also don't know that the Cooling Node mode register works as it should and SIV does not need to do all the CLCC workarounds :bigeyes:.

Yes perhaps that is what he is talking about. I have no idea as the response is so poorly written that it makes no sense to me at all. Everyone makes a typo now and then but this response is complete nonsense. I have sent a response clearly indicating that I am talking about the Commander Pro. Will just have to wait and see what happens.

Yes I do not know anything about the CLNP as I do not own one. Perhaps you could glean some usable information from the CLNP mode register? Just a thought but this is above my level of understanding. I hope that you can work it out. I really hope more that Corsair will provide you with the information you need. I hope the most that Corsair will update the firmware to eliminate the need to pursue this at all.

I do not know anything about the CLNP.

I never mentioned the CLNP, what are you on about? The Cooling Node is not a CLNP, I guess it would be CLCN

No this thread is not specific to my hot plug issue. This issue and several others were being posted in the Using SIV to provide information to diagnose issues or to control CL hardware thread because myself and some other members here have given up on Corsair Link and use SIV to control our Corsair Link capable products.

There has been a lot of activity on that thread because the author of SIV (Red Ray) has added support for the Commander Pro and RGB fans and LED strips to SIV, and is still in the process of adding features and refining control of these devices. Since this issue is not a SIV issue but rather a Commander Pro firmware issue, it seemed appropriate to start a new thread dedicated to Commander Pro issues.

If you want to start a new thread about your issue go ahead but feel free to post in this thread as well. :biggrin:

Hello !

I didn't find a topic about general aspects of Corsair Commander. Due to my own experience with Aquaero 5 LT and mCubed T-Balancer bigNG, I would like some answers for the following questions :

1 - In case of the regulation of 3-pins fans, I suppose that a certain amount of heat will be dissipated by Corsair Commander. I don't see radiators. How does it manage heat dissipation ?

2 - Supposing I programmed some profiles between temperatures and fans/pump speeds, what happens during all the time that Windows is not completely started ? For example, while I am in front of my BIOS page, does Corsair Commander works with the profiles which were programmed few days ago ?

Many thanks for your answers !

I'll take a crack at this.

1. The Commander Pro (CLCP) is a powered device via a SATA power connector, and as such it will generate some waste heat but a truly insignificant about. The LEDs themselves will generate much more heat that the CLCP. No where near enough to require water cooling.
    
   I took a look at the mCubed T-balancer. That is quite a hefty looking device with a massive heatsink. The CLCP is nothing like that. It's just a little plastic box. It can source 1 amp per port, 4.5 apps total. It is barely warm the the touch.
    
    
   
2. The CLCP stores the last setting. When I reboot my system, the fans and LEDs resume their last setting almost instantly. This is true while in the BIOS as well. As soon as the CLCP gets power and initializes, everything resumes the last setting.
   

Hope this helps!

I recently purchased a Commander Pro (CLCP) and 5 x HD140 RGB Fans. After a firmware update, the CLCP seems to be working well (under SIV control) but I have found that the CLCP is not able to detect fans that are plugged in or unplugged while the CLCP is running (Hot Plugging). A power cycle is required for the CLCP to detect the addition or removal of a fan.

 

As the Commander Mini (CLCM) could detect Hot Plugged fans, I feel that the CLCP should also be able to do this. I originally posted about this in the Using SIV to provide information to diagnose issues or to control CL hardware thread

 

http://forum.corsair.com/forums/showthread.php?p=907602#post907602

 

but since this is a CLCP firmware issue and not a SIV issue, I was advised to start this new thread for CLCP issues.

 

I opened a ticket at Corsair to address this issue. The initial response I got is posted here.

 

http://forum.corsair.com/forums/showthread.php?p=908274#post908274

 

Upon checking, we don't support hot plugging or hot swapping with the fans nor the commander pro.

 

So I responded with the following,

 

Thank you for your response. I also own a Commander Mini and it detects hot-plugged fans just fine so I do not understand why the Commander Pro cannot do this. I suspect this is a firmware issue that could be resolved should Corsair choose to do so.

 

There are several posts on the Corsair forum regarding this problem and as more people purchase the Commander Pro, I expect that you will be receiving more support tickets regarding this problem. Can you please explain to me why the Commander Pro cannot detect fans plugged in without power cycling the device.

 

Yesterday I received another response from Corsair -

 

As for the my understanding, the commander came first before the mini, we have an with your commander pro as it works perfectly fine with your mini. Let me investigate more on this and will give more information, can you give me time until Tuesday so i can gather all the information? thank you

 

I do not even understand the first sentence as it is non-sensible.:thinking: He seems to think the CLCP was released BEFORE the CLCM which is clearly incorrect. The CLCP was released for sale a few weeks ago. The CLCM has been on the market for at least a year and probably longer. So I am left with a response from a Corsair support person who does not even know when or in what order these products were released to the market, and a response that makes no sense to me at all no matter how many times I read it.

 

He does say that he will investigate more so I will respond and explain that he seems to be confused about which product preceded which, or perhaps what a Commander Pro even is. In addition to the obvious firmware issues with the CLCP, I have to deal with a Corsair support person who seems to be totally confused, sending me responses that border on illiterate. So I will count to 10 slowly and try again to make him understand which products i am talking about. I will post updates as they come in.

I received an update from Corsair Support regarding the CLCP fan hot plug issue. Response follows.

Based on my resources, Both devices were never intended to be “Hot Swappable” and it is recommended to restart the PC for the proper detection and functionality when connecting new devices.

So Corsair officially recommends a full reboot of the entire computer before plugging or unplugging a fan. I fear I have encountered an immovable object. At this point, I am thinking to close the ticket as this does not appear to be a concern of Corsair.

Based on my resources, Both devices were never intended to be “Hot Swappable” and it is recommended to restart the PC for the proper detection and functionality when connecting new devices.

1. Have you checked if the Corsair support advise works on your system please?
   
2. One device is the CLCP, but what is the other device?
   
3. BTW how is it going with the WS2812Bs?

I followed this advise and my testing indicates that a restart of this PC fails to result in proper detection :(:

 

If this did work then I expect pressing the [ Restart ] button on [Link Devices] would also work which I could live with.

 

I am also trying to get hotplug fixed via my direct Corsair contact and I just don't understand why Corsair don't fix this or at least provide a way to tell the CLCP firmware to do a redetect :confused:.

 

I feel tickets should remain open 'till the reported issue has been sensibly addressed.

 

[Link Fans] after I did a hotplug of 3 x 10K fans and before I rebooted

 

 

[Link Fans] after I did a hotplug of 3 x 10K fans and after I rebooted

 

1. Have you checked if the Corsair support advise works on your system please?
   
2. One device is the CLCP, but what is the other device?
   
3. BTW how is it going with the WS2812Bs?

1. Yes I did a full system power cycle reboot and the new HD120 RGB fan was detected on previously unused port 6. This is basically a more severe version of power cycling just the CLCP which also causes the fan to be detected.
    
    
   
2. I assume he is talking about the CLCM which does detect hot plugged fans, which I mentioned in my original ticket description. Or maybe the original Commander he referred to earlier. I don't really know.:thinking:
    
    
   
3. The LED strip arrived today. It is wired to CLCP LED Port 2 and working GREAT. I posted the details here.
    
   

http://forum.corsair.com/forums/showthread.php?p=908903#post908903

1. Yes I did a full system power cycle reboot and the new HD120 RGB fan was detected on previously unused port 6. This is basically a more severe version of power cycling just the CLCP which also causes the fan to be detected.
   
2. I assume he is talking about the CLCM which does detect hot plugged fans, which I mentioned in my original ticket description. Or maybe the original Commander he referred to earlier. I don't really know.:thinking:
   
3. The LED strip arrived today. It is wired to CLCP LED Port 2 and working GREAT. I posted the details here.

1. Yes, but Corsair Support did not specify to power cycle.
   
2. Corsair Support could/should be far clearer with their replies.
   
3. Great :biggrin:.

Hello SpeedyV,

Thanks for your answer ! I went further in details and it appeared that Aquaero 5 LT or T-Balancer units have massive heatsink due to the maximum wattage to dissipate (20W per fan channel), while Corsair Commander goes up to 12W. I have to think about this, in front of numerous fans (i.e. 4 fans on the upper 4x120mm radiator), 2 fans on a lower radiator,...).

Hello SpeedyV,

 

Thanks for your answer ! I went further in details and it appeared that Aquaero 5 LT or T-Balancer units have massive heatsink due to the maximum wattage to dissipate (20W per fan channel), while Corsair Commander goes up to 12W. I have to think about this, in front of numerous fans (i.e. 4 fans on the upper 4x120mm radiator), 2 fans on a lower radiator,...).

If it helps, my Commander Pro (CLCP) currently has 5 x HD140 RGB fans and 1 HD120 RGB fan connected to it. The fan LEDs all go to the LED Hub which has it's own SATA power connection, so fan LEDs do not contribute to the load on the CLCP. I don't know how much power the HD140 and HD120 fans can consume. Power consumption is not listed on the Corsair webpage for the fans or in the specs (that I could find). The CLCP can source 1 amp per fan port, 4.4 amps total.

http://www.corsair.com/en-us/hd140-rgb-led-high-performance-140mm-pwm-fan

http://www.corsair.com/en-us/hd120-rgb-led-high-performance-120mm-pwm-fan

I have just measured the PWM clock and it seems to be about 0.36 KHz rather than the target of 25 KHz as specified in the specification. Has anyone seen the same please?

I just checked a CLCC and that's about 18.2 KHz, still out of spec, but far closer. To me it's starting to look like Corsair have messed up and I wonder if this is the root cause the fan detection issues.

4_wire_pwm_spec.pdf

I have just measured the PWM clock and it seems to be about 0.36 KHz rather than the target of 25 KHz as specified in the specification. Has anyone seen the same please?

 

I just checked a CLCC and that's about 18.2 KHz, still out of spec, but far closer. To me it's starting to look like Corsair have messed up and I wonder if this is the root cause the fan detection issues.

Oh I have a bad feeling about this, and am wondering if this indicates a hardware design flaw that cannot be corrected through a firmware update. If you post details on where you attached a scope probe to observe the PWM Clock, I am happy to try same and see if I get the same results. I can also check my Commander Mini. I don't have an O-Scope sitting here but can borrow one from work.

I also wonder if there is more than 1 PWM method and specification. When I did some Googling of the matter, I pulled up an article that discussed variations in method and implementation of PWM control (will look for link). I recall thinking it odd and unlikely that variations in PWM control implementation could result in incompatibilities. There are lots of companies making PWM fans, PWM controllers, and motherboards with integral PWM control, yet I have never read of compatibility problems like PWM fan brand X will NOT work with PWM fan headers on motherboard brand Y. Then again, I have not searched for evidence of incompatible PWM methods as I never had a reason to.

If what you are observing is correct (and I am confident that it is), then the next step would be independent confirmation of results. Assuming the results are confirmed, then was does it mean?

1. Did Corsair screw up hardware design and the problem cannot be corrected through a software or firmware update?
    
   
2. If the PWM Clock frequency is that far off, would it cause the issues that are surfacing?
    
   
3. Are we looking at a hardware recall solution that Corsair would deny and fight tooth & nail to avoid?

I am happy to confirm your measurements if you provide the information required to do so. To be honest, I expected bugs and problems with the CLCP when I purchased it, but I was not expecting an issue like this. Corsair seems to have exceeded my expectations again!

I am happy to confirm your measurements if you provide the information required to do so. To be honest, I expected bugs and problems with the CLCP when I purchased it, but I was not expecting an issue like this. Corsair seems to have exceeded my expectations again!

What you will need to do will depend on the scope you use, but you need to connect the probe to pin-4 with pin-1 being the ground. I used my trusty old Tektronix 465B with DM44 and this was quite easy once I read the manual. I was quite surprised what these still cost as they must be over 30 years old.

I also suspect if you set 50% PWM and connected a frequency counter it would also report the clock. The main thing is for someone to confirm my readings.

1. I don't know if this can be fixed by a firmware update, but can't be fixed with a software change.
   
2. It could do, basically as the clock is way outside the specification all bets are off and Corsair need to fix this.
   
3. Yes, I suspect they will and it will be interesting to see what happens.

What you will need to do will depend on the scope you use, but you need to connect the probe to pin-4 with pin-1 being the ground. I used my trusty old Tektronix 465B with DM44 and this was quite easy once I read the manual. I was quite surprised what these still cost as they must be over 30 years old.

 

I also suspect if you set 50% PWM and connected a frequency counter it would also report the clock. The main thing is for someone to confirm my readings.

 

1. I don't know if this can be fixed by a firmware update, but can't be fixed with a software change.
   
2. It could do, basically as the clock is way outside the specification all bets are off and Corsair need to fix this.
   
3. Yes, I suspect they will and it will be interesting to see what happens.

Ok I will check and see what they have. I think it is a dual-trace digital storage scope that is way more sophisticated than what is required to check this. We also have some older scopes in the bone yard that I could grab. I assume by pins 4 and 1 (ground) you are referring to a fan port on the CLCP.

I will try to borrow a scope tomorrow and do the test tomorrow evening. I will check the Commander Mini as well. I am guessing that these PWM controllers use off the shelf chips to drive the fan ports. I am tempted to open up the CLCP and have a look. If I can identify the chip and look up the specs for it, it may be possible to confirm that they are operating the device (way) out of spec.

This is rudimentary Electronics-101 design stuff. I wonder who Corsair contracted to actually design the hardware portion of this product. Based on what you have observed, I am a bit surprised it works at all. Stand by for independent test results.

I am tempted to open up the CLCP and have a look.

I expect the PWM clocks come from the CY8C3246AXI-138 so expect the speed can be corrected with a firmware update.

1. So was I and the CLCP uses Cypress CY8C3246AXI-138 for all the control functions and there is also a Genesyslogic GL852G 4-port USB HUB.
   
2. The top cover is a clip fit which I managed to remove without causing any damage.
   
3. I used a small screwdriver, pushed to top end cover next to the LED inwards and it then released.

CY8C32 Family Data Sheet.pdf

Ok I will check and see what they have.

Update - What they have is a Vector Scope :[pouts: so I may have to do a little digging. I am sure there is an O-Scope around here somewhere...

After update my Problems with Noctua Industrial PWM not Spinning up are fixed.

Everything running fine for me now.

After update my Problems with Noctua Industrial PWM not Spinning up are fixed.

 

Everything running fine for me now.

Hey you are right! They did release an update but only though the Link application. Their download site still has 4.7.0.77. There is also a firmware update for the Commander Pro - New version 02.136. I wonder what they changed? Will be checking fan detection and hot plug for sure.

Will be checking fan detection and hot plug for sure.

Fan detection seems to be better, but hotplug does not work :(:.

The number of LEDs is also still limited to 72 and 6 strips.

I did the CLCP firmware update to version 0.2.136 over a TV link. When I got in front of the machine, my fans were oscillating between ~800RPM and ~1000RPM - all of them. All but 1 is tied to coolant temp. Per the curve I have they should have been sitting at ~1000RPM steady. SIV showed the RPM oscillating back and forth about once every 2 seconds.

When I did the Link and Firmware update, I saw a pop up that said a reboot was required, but it didn't do one and neither did I . So after seeing this weird fan behavior, I did a full reboot. Now I am seeing the fans all go from ~1000RPM to 0 RPM and then back again several times in the last few minutes. Coolant temp is steady at 40C. I am still running SIV 5.21 Beta 13 at the moment.

Since the reboot, it does not oscillate between ~800RPM and 1000RPM - all fans are dropping to 0RPM for 2 seconds or so, then going back to 1000RPM (where they should be). This behavior (fans all going to 0RPM for a few seconds) has happened 2 times before the firmware update that I have been sitting here to see. Tonight, after the CLCP firmware update, it is doing it often.

Now, while typing this, it seems to have stopped. I guess I will keep an eye on it. If I can catch a screen capture of [AIO Link Fans] showing 0RPM for fans tied to coolant temp of 40C, I will. This may have nothing to do with the firmware update, especially since I have seen this happen twice before.